Broken microwave and replacement cost

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  • Broken microwave and replacement cost

    Sorry if I should be posting on an old thread but not sure what to do, been here 4 months and was never given an inventory, there is a microwave when I moved in in communal kitchen that broke about 3 weeks ago.

    Landlord has told us that we must replace it by time we move our or he will take amount off our deposit.

    I dont know my rights on this as to me its wear and tear and likely just happened as it was a few years old so should be replaced or even just looked at by him.

    Worse comes to worse can get one off Freecycle but LL wants one of a similar model!

  • #2
    In what way is it not working? If it has simply failed electrically then how can the landlord say anyone has damaged it? What model is it and how much would it cost new? What kind of house share are you in?
    I also post as Moderator2 when moderating

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mars Mug View Post
      In what way is it not working? If it has simply failed electrically then how can the landlord say anyone has damaged it? What model is it and how much would it cost new? What kind of house share are you in?
      It just does nothing when connected to the mains, have tried replacing fuse and nothing happens, also tried the fuse from the microwave in another appliance(of course checking ampage was the same) and the fuse works in another device.

      When it last worked I put something in for a few minutes then went out then housemate used it and I came back and tried to use it but it didnt work.

      I did notice at the time though that the trip switch for the kitchen sockets was down so something has blown.

      Cosmetically the item looks in good condition i.e could be a few years old.

      House is a student house with 1 other tenant and we have seperate contracts.

      I assume the microwave is about £30-£40 to replace but not sure.

      Comment


      • #4
        There are typically two or three microswitch interlocks on a microwave that check things like the door is shut, these can easily fail meaning that everything seems to work, but nothing cooks. There are plenty of levels of failure so without signs of physical damage I would not try to pass it off onto the tenant.
        I also post as Moderator2 when moderating

        Comment


        • #5
          Tell the landlord that in no way was the microwave damaged or tampered with, assuming you are positive that it was not dropped when cleaning behind it -- but students cleaning ! ? no -- it could not have been dropped then !

          Just tell him again that his microwave that you are renting from him has decided it has come to the end of it's usefull life, and that as it belongs to him, and is out of guarentee, it's one of the perks of being a landlord, that if electrical equipment fails, then if it is out of guarantee, then the onus is on the landlord to replace, as you are not prepared to send the microwave off to an independant facilty, to prove that it is a malfunction of an elecrtical switch / resitor / timer malfunction , to prove you did not break it.

          Tell the landlord you don't mind him sending the microwave off to find out the cause of failure, but you are not paying for any investigation, such is your resolve that the microwave is kaput through no fault of yours.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ram View Post
            Tell the landlord that in no way was the microwave damaged or tampered with, assuming you are positive that it was not dropped when cleaning behind it -- but students cleaning ! ? no -- it could not have been dropped then !

            Just tell him again that his microwave that you are renting from him has decided it has come to the end of it's usefull life, and that as it belongs to him, and is out of guarentee, it's one of the perks of being a landlord, that if electrical equipment fails, then if it is out of guarantee, then the onus is on the landlord to replace, as you are not prepared to send the microwave off to an independant facilty, to prove that it is a malfunction of an elecrtical switch / resitor / timer malfunction , to prove you did not break it.

            Tell the landlord you don't mind him sending the microwave off to find out the cause of failure, but you are not paying for any investigation, such is your resolve that the microwave is kaput through no fault of yours.
            Thats what I was thinking, I do regularly clean the insides and housemate does little cleaning and the microwave was full of gunk when I moved in but dont often clean behind it I was thinking just that, if its broken due to us I will get it replaced but if its just wear and tear him replace it(or not as long as he doesnt try and charge us for it)

            But this landlord seems to be playing a fine line with law/rules as stated in other threads like he wont put locks on the bedroom doors as he says they are illegal due to fire regulations(but gets away with it in our house since only 2 out of 4 rooms are occupied at the minute) however he owns another 4 bedroom house that has 4 tenants with no locks, then complained about the house being messy when having viewings despite it being tidy/tidyish then blaming us for the house not getting let out fast etc.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by duomaxwell View Post
              But this landlord seems to be playing a fine line with law/rules as stated in other threads like he wont put locks on the bedroom doors as he says they are illegal due to fire regulations(but gets away with it in our house since only 2 out of 4 rooms are occupied at the minute) however he owns another 4 bedroom house that has 4 tenants with no locks, then complained about the house being messy when having viewings despite it being tidy/tidyish then blaming us for the house not getting let out fast etc.
              I refer you to my post on one of your previous threads.

              Originally posted by westminster View Post
              ...may I suggest that, instead of complaining repeatedly, you do something more pro-active, something which might solve the problem and make it go away.

              1. LL entering your room without your consent - put a lock on your door.
              2. Too many viewings - consider complying with LL's request for tidiness during the viewings. Because if LL finds a new tenant, the viewings will stop.
              3. No gas safety certificate - request in writing from LL, and if he doesn't provide one, report to either the Environmental Health Officer at the local council, or the Health & Safety Executive.
              4. HMO safety requirements - contact EHO or HMO Licencing dept at the council and find out what they actually are instead of guessing.
              5. Deposit not protected - write to landlord requesting details, and if he doesn't comply, seek legal advice as regards claiming against LL for non-compliance.
              6. Untidiness of the other tenant - talk to him about it and try to find a mutually acceptable solution.
              7. LL's email about complaints from neighbours - consider complying with LL's apparently reasonable request not to cause a nuisance to neighbours.

              Do the above, then if it doesn't work and the problem remains, post again. But there is really no point merely airing your grievances if you continue to ignore all the advice you've been given on your many threads on here.
              That was on 20th February, nearly three weeks ago. What steps have you taken re points 1 - 7?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by westminster View Post
                I refer you to my post on one of your previous threads.


                That was on 20th February, nearly three weeks ago. What steps have you taken re points 1 - 7?
                Havent put a lock on my door as wasnt sure about placing one on and was worried LL would charge me for damage since I would have to I assume cut a bit out of the wood to put a lock in, For most of the other questions combined the other tenant has only caused a problem once since then and that was during the day, i.e invitied friends of friends back but they only got loud around 10am and broke a chair in the living room, stole at least 1 of my dvds and sole my food and drink from kitchen, flatmate apologised but hasnt replaced the stolen stuff, the neighbours are actually really nice to me but not to flatmate as the time I spoke to them(did I mention that in an old thread) we spoke for about 10 minutes and they could tell I wasnt to blame.

                For the rest I made a appointment with someone from Shelter at my local CAB though the viewings seemed to have stopped just because I plan to be away from the house quite a bit over the next 6 weeks so not in if flatmate brings friends back so anything can go on.

                Flatmate is a bit more tidy, now takes the rubbish bag out every week and cleans every so often, doesnt seem to touch the greasy baking trays full of fat from his fry ups though and I am still doing to proper cleaning i.e he may just brush loads of stuff into the corner of kitchen instead of using dustpan and brush and has only hoovered twice.

                So its getting better but still would feel more safe with a lock on my door.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Broken Microwave and replacement cost

                  Hi , I am in a shared property and the microwave broke . We decided because there are 4 of us sharing the property and thus the costs of everything we didn't mind the cost of replacing it . Besides we hadn't exactly been fully looking after the microwave so thought rather than argue with the landlord over liability we would just buy a replacement as a show of good faith

                  One of us emailed the landlord just to make him aware that we had done this and ask if he would like the old microwave back or if we should just dispose of it ourselves .

                  He has now started being picky about what microwave we should replace it with and stating that the microwave has to be one of a higher cost with more features than the one we have replaced it with .

                  Now I would be right in thinking that even if we are liable for the damage to the microwave for him to end the tenancy with a brand new microwave when there was not a brand new microwave there at the start of the tenancy would result in betterment and so we would be well within our rights to ask him to undertake the process of appointing with us .
                  The microwave that was there at the start of the tenancy was defiantly a few years old , it had a metal exterior but there was rust on the exterior of the microwave so if he wants us to replace the microwave with a comparable model I defiantly don't see how it is fair that we should be paying the full cost of this when the microwave he provided was showing its age

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When the letting began:
                    a. was the old microwave there;
                    b. did it appear on an Inventory agreed with L; and
                    c. in the Letting Agreement, did L agree to repair/replace it (or 'everything on the Inventory')?
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      a,b)When the tenancy began the microwave was there and it is photographed in the inventory showing its condition so there are no issues as to the condition of the microwave at the start of the tenancy

                      c)In terms of the agreement it states under the tenants obligations that tenants will ...
                      "Yield up the property at the end of the tenancy in the same clean state and condition that it was at the beginning of the tenancy and make good and pay for the repair of or replace al such items of the Fixtures Furniture and Effects as shall be broken lost of damaged or destroyed during the tenancy(reasonable wear and tear excepted) "

                      My interpretation of that would say that we are responsible for replacing the microwave , the microwave wasn't cleaned very often and so that would have contributed to it breaking . I didn't mind paying for a new microwave especially when you divide the cost between 4 people its fine however my issue is now with the landlord being picky about the microwave we have chosen to purchase and stating that we must buy a higher priced model .and also stating that we should dispose of the old microwave which again I did not mind however all of this inconveniences the tenant when it is the landlord whose microwave it is that broke should be inconvenienced

                      Surely regardless of what any tenancy agreement states the doctrine of betterment takes precedent over that and so I'm tempted to say to the landlord that if the microwave is not satisfactory to his standards we can arrange the return of this microwave we have purchased(only used it once since purchase y day) and can arrange for the purchase of the new microwave taking into account the doctrine of betterment and so we would wish to appoint the costs of the new microwave on the basis that the old one was not in brand new condition when we took possession of the property and so if we where to provide you with a brand new microwave you would be materially better off than you where at the beginning of the tenancy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If the old unit broke due to reasonable use, L would have no claim against you for it. The new unit is yours to keep.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Reasonable use : Would this take into account the number and type of occupiers because it is a 5 bed student house and so obviously the microwave did see heavy use multiple times a day in many cases

                          Also I believe we would be defeated on the reasonable use argument as the microwave was rarely cleaned and so he could easiilly claim that we where not operating the microwave in line with the instructions which im pretty sure would say keep clean and so it was not reasonable use

                          Also he is claiming that he needs us to buy a combination microwave with a grill and a microwave for licensing reasons . I assume he means his HMO license obligations and if so I was not aware that he required a microwave with a grill just that there needs to be a grill for the type of property it is and there is indeed a grill in the oven unit in the kitchen


                          so practically what should I do now ,
                          there has to be a microwave there at the end of the tenancy as per inventory which is fast approaching
                          we proposed to leave the microwave we have just purchased and leave it at that
                          he is saying we must replace it with a higher valued model so from a practical sense how do i go about resolving this situation in the easiest way for everyone .
                          I'm happy for the higher priced microwave to be purchased if he is prepared to undertake the process of appointing however from past experience our landlord seems to get very defensive very quickly and will not be very receptive if we start putting it to him that he has to pay towards the cost of a new microwave .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by muz379 View Post
                            Reasonable use : Would this take into account the number and type of occupiers because it is a 5 bed student house and so obviously the microwave did see heavy use multiple times a day in many cases
                            Yes, if L let it to the number of tenants who use it in a reasonable manner.
                            No, if more than that number used it OR they used it in an unreasonable manner (or against manufactuters' guidance).
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                              Yes, if L let it to the number of tenants who use it in a reasonable manner.
                              No, if more than that number used it OR they used it in an unreasonable manner (or against manufactuters' guidance).
                              i'm going to say that he has a pretty successful argument for it being used in an unreasonable manner because the instruction manual says to ensure its clean and seeing as we failed to keep it clean that's against the manufacturers guidance .
                              However i'm not concerned with this because even if it was used unreasonably and we are liable to pay he still cannot benefit materially from us purchasing a whole new combination microwave in place of the aged model that was in the house before . and so surely should put some to for the cost of a new microwave

                              also would he have obligations under his role as a HMO license holder to keep a microwave grill in the house as this is not something I thought would be mandatory under the terms of his HMO License

                              Comment

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