Extra conditions on Tenancy Agreement

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    Extra conditions on Tenancy Agreement

    I have purchased a Lawpack tenancy agreement but there are some extra conditions I would like to add and I'm not sure how to go about it. Advice please?

    The conditions are (and as far as I can see they are not on the TA as it stands):

    1. No smoking in the house
    2. No more pets than verbally agreed (currently 1 cat and 1 dog)
    3. The dog is not allowed upstairs (can I specify this? Reason being only upstairs is carpetted)
    4. Carpets to be professionally cleaned and flea treated at end of tenancy or costs deducted from deposit.

    Also, can I include conditions regarding the upkeep of the garden? Luckily it's pretty maintenance free, just paved patio area and lawn. My only concern is the fence. I would like this to be creosoted annually (only very small garden). I'm happy to do this or would supply the creosote if they would rather do it. Would this be reasonable to include as an extra condition too?

    #2
    I was hoping someone maybe able to help here

    I have 'The Buy-to-Let Bible' by Ajay Ahuja. It shows a copy of the Tenancy Agreement that I have purchased from Lawpack but the one in the book has an extra section that is not included in the TA I have just bought(book is 3 years old so maybe that's why).

    The extra section is for any additional terms that you would like incorporated in the Agreement. So, can I just type up my own and attach it to the agreement?

    Comment


      #3
      You will certainly struggle to word 2, 3 and 4(especially 2) in such a way that they will be enforceable, and I suspect 1 may be difficult also. As for the garden, if you are happy to do it, then why would you include a clause about it? And I should say, on a personal note, I find 3 + 4 quite unreasonable to even try and put in, although I can understand the other ones.
      Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Ripsnort View Post
        The conditions are
        (1. No smoking in the house
        2. No more pets than verbally agreed (currently 1 cat and 1 dog)
        3. The dog is not allowed upstairs (can I specify this? Reason being only upstairs is carpetted)
        4. Carpets to be professionally cleaned and flea treated at end of tenancy or costs deducted from deposit.

        Also, can I include conditions regarding the upkeep of the garden? Luckily it's pretty maintenance free, just paved patio area and lawn. My only concern is the fence. I would like this to be creosoted annually (only very small garden). I'm happy to do this or would supply the creosote if they would rather do it. Would this be reasonable to include as an extra condition too?
        you can put these conditions in, but most would be difficult to enforce and if it came to a dispute whether they would be deemed reasonable is subject to interpretation. in my opinion 1 and 2 would be reasonable but impossible to enforce, 3 a total non starter as for 4 that seems a reasonable condition as it stands and if the garden is as you say pretty maintenance free is not worth putting in your final clause ,fences dont normally need to be creosoted annually
        Opinions given are mine, They are not necessarily correct, as the more I learn the less I know, You should always seek professional help.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by MrShed View Post
          And I should say, on a personal note, I find 3 + 4 quite unreasonable to even try and put in, although I can understand the other ones.
          Really? Ideally we wanted the property marketed as no pets but a family were shown the property and after saying that they were extremely interested have since told us that they have a dog and cat. They have said they have family who will take on their pets for them if we won't allow them. I'm an animal lover and don't believe that is the right option, I would prefer they stay with the family. I believe I'm meeting them half way here? Obviously, the dog not being allowed upstairs will be hard to enforce, I agree, but as they have 2 small children anyway I'm sure there will be stairgates in place.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by welshgold View Post
            you can put these conditions in, but most would be difficult to enforce and if it came to a dispute whether they would be deemed reasonable is subject to interpretation. in my opinion 1 and 2 would be reasonable but impossible to enforce, 3 a total non starter as for 4 that seems a reasonable condition as it stands and if the garden is as you say pretty maintenance free is not worth putting in your final clause ,fences dont normally need to be creosoted annually
            Agree, 1 and 2 difficult to enforce as would 3 be Adding them may just make them think that we expect certain standards even if they can't be enforced? Perhaps I'm being rather naive though!!

            Back to the main question though, can I just type this up and add to the TA?

            Thanks

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ripsnort View Post
              Agree, 1 and 2 difficult to enforce as would 3 be Adding them may just make them think that we expect certain standards even if they can't be enforced? Perhaps I'm being rather naive though!!

              Back to the main question though, can I just type this up and add to the TA?

              Thanks
              i can see no reason why you cant type it up and add it
              Opinions given are mine, They are not necessarily correct, as the more I learn the less I know, You should always seek professional help.

              Comment


                #8
                Smoking - surely it is acceptable to have a clause stating that tenants must not, nor allow anyone else to, smoke on the premises? Am I being gormless here? Fag smell lingers for a long time, unless you cover it up with soemthing nearly as bad, like a petrochemical 'home fragrance/cleaner'. Any whiff of a previous tenant is enough to put a potential non-smoking tenant off immediately. Also I'm pretty sure the insurance co. I use stipulate non-smokers. So, by allowing smokers, your potential future client base is restricted, and your choice of insurance co. This is common sense, but maybe a legal authority wouldn't see it as such????!

                Pets - state no pets without the landlords written consent? Give your written consent for those particular beasts and then the tenants will need to/should come back to you? Again - common sense (but I know that's out of fashion nowadays, certainly with various wonderful institutions that regulate our daily lives) - imagine a Tom and a Kitty ......say in 6 months time there's a litter, then the kittens have kittens ....aargh!!!!!! Chop till you drop is my motto.

                Dog is not allowed upstairs ...haven't a clue! Is this based on an assumption that fleas can't climb stairs by themselves? They'll just hitch a lift on the nearest human.

                Carpets to be flea treated - the vast majority of pet owners know that animals get fleas. Can you increase the deposit by the cost of a steam clean/carpet treatment? Say that on vacating the property you will need proof of tenant having it carried out, or you will use that portion to diy?
                Thing with fleas is that at the end of a tenancy, a tenant might say there's no fleas on me, so don't need it done - but I think flea eggs can lie dormant for a year or two in carpets before they hatch. So it's best to assume they're there, as they almost certainly will be.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Smoking is an utterly filthy brainless and dangerous habit. And the kind of morons who do it are likely to cause all kinds of damage.

                  It is not that difficult to enforce a no-smoking clause. The LL just needs to do an inspection visit three months into a 6-month initial fixed term. Any evidence of smoke stench, dog-ends or whatever and straight in with a S21 dated to expire at the end of the six months. No need to give any reason. And good riddance to the rubbishy smoke-stinking tenants.
                  Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by catcuddler View Post
                    Dog is not allowed upstairs ...haven't a clue! Is this based on an assumption that fleas can't climb stairs by themselves? They'll just hitch a lift on the nearest human.
                    This suggested stipulation wasn't based on fleas, after all, with a cat there's no way of enforcing keeping a cat downstairs. This was based on the amount of pet hairs. The dog in question is long coated. Having a long coated dog myself I know just how problematic this can be. However, if I can stipulate the carpet cleaning/flea treatment then this may not be necessary anyway.

                    Our letting agent stipulates to all their clients that there is a no smoking policy and would include this in their TA. As we are doing the TA ourselves I prefer to add this clause. I will be doing 3 monthly checks too which reminds me, do I have to state that on the TA too?

                    Lawstudent.....I take it you dislike smoking Me too actually!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by welshgold View Post
                      i can see no reason why you cant type it up and add it
                      Thank you

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You can certainly add it, but you need to realise there are two different ways of thinking about enforcement. There is physical enforcement, which obviously is very difficult to do anyway. And there is enforcement through the courts. The pet clause would have to be quite carefully worded to be accepted by the court, as would the professional cleaning clause. The third one I can never see being accepted by a court, no matter how it is worded.

                        However, this is all fairly academic, as this is based upon using breach of these clauses to evict the tenant on a Section 8 notice. It is obviously easy to get round this by evicting using a S21 after the first 6 months(assuming you have a 6 month term!).

                        As for my reasoning on 3 + 4 being unreasonable, I think it is obvious why 3 is unreasonable. It clearly and blatently impacts on the tenants right to quiet enjoyment of the property. As for 4, it was mainly the "flea treatment" that I found unreasonable - it is a bit unfair to assume that a domesticated family pet will have fleas, and indeed if pets are going to cause some sort of damage, I would say this is the least of your worries. Professionally cleaned(or as you would have to say in your term, cleaned by a propriatary cleaning company) you can put in, but not really any need, as you have a right to receive the property back in the same condition anyway. And why should they be penalised if they keep the property clean and tidy all by themselves?
                        Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MrShed View Post
                          I think it is obvious why 3 is unreasonable. It clearly and blatently impacts on the tenants right to quiet enjoyment of the property.
                          How do you imagine that not having a dog impacts on a tenant's right to quiet enjoyment of the property? I have quietly enjoyed my flat for many years without feeling any need for a dog, or a dog end come to that. In fact the only time my quiet enjoyment was shattered was when a neighbour's dog started barking every time I dropped off to sleep. If I were a landlord I would ban dogs upstairs, downstairs and in the lady's chamber. Lovely animals in the daytime can become psychopathic monsters at night, breaching everyone's peace and chewing the curtains.
                          Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ripsnort - FYI here's the official guidance on unfair terms in tenancy agreements, which may be useful for you:
                            http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D...E/0/oft356.pdf

                            I'll freely admit that my standard AST does contain a few clauses which would probably not stand up to scrutiny of this level although they are certainly not outlandish and personally I don't think they are unreasonable (they certainly have less 'impact' than yours)... I include these clauses in the full knowledge that I wouldn't and couldn't take action against the tenant if they broke them (except for issuing an S21, 'without reason'!) but in the hope that the tenants will still adhere to them - and to be honest, that they probably don't actually know that the terms aren't legally enforceable.

                            So personally, I don't see why you can't add go ahead and anything you like to your agreement on a similar basis, providing you accept the limitations of doing so? What do others think?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
                              I'll freely admit that my standard AST does contain a few clauses which would probably not stand up to scrutiny of this level although they are certainly not outlandish and personally I don't think they are unreasonable ... I include these clauses in the full knowledge that I wouldn't and couldn't take action against the tenant if they broke them (except for issuing an S21, 'without reason'!) but in the hope that the tenants will still adhere to them - and to be honest, that they probably don't actually know that the terms aren't legally enforceable.

                              So personally, I don't see why you can't add go ahead and anything you like to your agreement on a similar basis, providing you accept the limitations of doing so? What do others think?
                              I agree 100%
                              Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                              Comment

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