Is this a valid S21

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    Is this a valid S21

    I (the tennant) have an AST from 1st November 2010 to 31st October 2011.
    On the evening of the 1st March 2011 the letting agent posted a S21 notice through the door stating that "possesion is required on the 1st May 2011, or at the end of the period of your tenancy which will end after the expiration of (*) two months from the service upon you of this notice."

    * At least two months notice must be given etc ....

    As I understand it this technically gives me less than two months notice as due to the date and time served cant really start until the 2nd at the earliest

    It seems to me that it should have served before the end of Feb and that the date should have been the 30th April

    Any guidance appreciated

    #2
    Originally posted by MrMagoo View Post
    I (the tennant) have an AST from 1st November 2010 to 31st October 2011.
    Is there a break clause in your tenancy agreement?
    If there is, can you post it's exact wording.

    Comment


      #3
      Yes
      "Termination by notice:
      The Landlord or Tenant shall have the right to terminate this Tenancy by giving two months notice in writing to expire at any time on or after six months from the Commencement Date such notices to be delivered by hand or registered post by the Landlord or Landlord's Agent to the Tenant or by the Tenant to the Landlord or the Landlord's Agent as appropriate"

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by MrMagoo View Post
        I (the tennant) have an AST from 1st November 2010 to 31st October 2011.
        On the evening of the 1st March 2011 the letting agent posted a S21 notice through the door stating that "possesion is required on the 1st May 2011, OR at the end of the period of your tenancy which will end after the expiration of (*) two months from the service upon you of this notice."

        As I understand it this technically gives me less than two months notice as due to the date and time served cant really start until the 2nd at the earliest
        It'd be fine if it'd said "after 1st May", as 2nd March - 1st May inclusive is two clear months.

        However, there's an 'OR'.

        The tenancy isn't periodic, but I would interpret the underlined phrase as referring to rental periods, i.e. presumably 1st - last day of the month.

        The notice period begins on 2nd March, so the end of a period following two months from this date would be 31st May, i.e. 2nd March - 1st May is the two months, and the next end of period after that is 31st May.

        I think it could be valid.

        Comment


          #5
          Hmm. We've previously discussed whether Notice operating 'on date A or date B' is sufficiently clear.
          It would have been OK had it said:
          a. 'on date A or (if later) date B' [= the 'saving' clause wording]; or
          b. 'on the later of date A and date B'.
          Here, it gives T two possible dates but without saying the relationship between them (or which one prevails).
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            Hmm. We've previously discussed whether Notice operating 'on date A or date B' is sufficiently clear.
            Yes, but previous discussions have been in respect of a s.21(4)(a) notice, where this subsection specifies 'a' date must be given. The notice served to OP need only fulfill the requirements of s.21(1)(b) and of the break clause, neither of which are as specific as s.21(4)(a). Therefore, whilst your point is valid, I think the notice might arguably fulfill the purpose of giving T two months' notice, even though the expiry date is one of two alternative dates.

            Comment


              #7
              Could be; but I hope that neither of us ever has to argue this in Court.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                Presumably this amiguity is also arguable the other way then such that I can count the 1st March as the day notice was served and vacate on 30th April to achieve the Landlord having possesion on the 1st May as per the S21 and that probably suits me best now as well as being rather disinclined to give the LL a penny more than I have to ...

                Comment

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