Periodic Monthly Contract with 2 Months Notice Period?

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  • Periodic Monthly Contract with 2 Months Notice Period?

    Hi guys hope you cal help.

    I've read on the site that if a new Tenancy Agreement is not renewed and the tenant agree's with the landlord to remain in the property, the agreement changes into a Periodic Tenancy and therefore if you pay rent monthly, the notice period should be one month.

    However, my tenancy agreement seems to state a two month notice period and I was wondering if this is legally binding...?

    The exact text reads:

    "If the landlord or tenant wishes to terminate the tenancy a minimum of two months notice must be given at the commencement of the tenancy. If neither the Landlord nor the Tenant gives notice then on the expiry of the fixed term the tenancy shall become a Periodic Tenancy and in such case two months notice (coinciding with a rental date) by either side will be required to terminate it"

    Does this sound correct? even though the tenancy agreement is no longer valid (i.e. the 12 months has expired) can I still be bound by the notice period?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks
    Matt

  • #2
    The tenancy agreement is still (almost entirely ) valid - you've just moved on, on the same terms, to (usually) a month-by-month "periodic" agreement: That is the law...

    Assuming you are in England or wales & unless you rent is paid every 2-months (unlikely) you only have to give 1 months notice (but** see later), landlord has to give at least 2 months.

    Tenancy agreement may not take away your rights from the law see...
    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ic_agreement#1

    If your agreement is periodic (ie rolling from week to week or month to month), you normally have to give at least four weeks' notice to end it, or a calendar month if you have a monthly tenancy. ......................

    It is always best to give notice in writing and ensure that the notice ends on the first or last day of the period of a tenancy. For example, if your tenancy is monthly and started on the fifth day of the month, the notice you give the landlord should end on the fourth or the fifth
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


    • #3
      Brilliant, thanks for that. I did think the contract didn't make sense and wandered how a letting agents could impose a two month contract when they know that you can't give two months notice when moving into a new place as everyone else can move within a month!

      How can I get this proved? is it something I can goto Citizens Advice with? the problem is I want to get some evidence together before presenting my argument with the letting agents as I know this will rock the boat!

      Matt

      Comment


      • #4
        "If the landlord or tenant wishes to terminate the tenancy a minimum of two months notice must be given at the commencement of the tenancy. If neither the Landlord nor the Tenant gives notice then on the expiry of the fixed term the tenancy shall become a Periodic Tenancy and in such case two months notice (coinciding with a rental date) by either side will be required to terminate it"

        The part in red does not make a whole lot of sense. Even so the rest is clear. If such a notice is not given when the fixed term ends a contractual periodic tenancy arises which can only be ended by giving two months' notice ending on a rent day.

        Comment


        • #5
          Lawcruncher...

          Is there a lay-mans guide to the difference between a CPT & and SPT?

          The CPT seems to take away a tenants statutory rights - and if this is valid, are there any disadvantages to a CPT? If there are not, I can't understand why all tenancy agreements do not create a CPT at the end of the fixed term.

          Comment


          • #6
            Can we establish whether OP os T or LL and the precise terms/dates of the original AST?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mariner View Post
              Can we establish whether OP os T or LL and the precise terms/dates of the original AST?
              Hi Guys,

              A lot of abbreviations there which I dont understand, but I'll try and answer:

              I'm the tenant and the contract is a Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement which expired on the 30th Jan 2011. My rental month is the 30th of the month and I gave written notice just before the 30th of Feb 2011.

              I'm being told that I need to pay rent upto the 30th April (hense the extra month)

              Thanks
              Matt

              Comment


              • #8
                It is not so much that a contractual periodic tenancy takes a tenant's rights away, but rather that statute intervenes to fill the gap if the parties do not make any provision for what happens at the end of the fixed term.

                A contractual periodic tenancy is simply one that the parties have specifically agreed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                  Lawcruncher...

                  Is there a lay-mans guide to the difference between a CPT & and SPT?

                  The CPT seems to take away a tenants statutory rights - and if this is valid, are there any disadvantages to a CPT? If there are not, I can't understand why all tenancy agreements do not create a CPT at the end of the fixed term.
                  I agree. I don't understand why any LL leaves themselves open to T leaving without notice after 6 or 12 months. I toyed with fixed terms followed by CPT but Ts found it confusing (as did I). Instead I now offer a 3yr AST with a break clause allowing it to be terminated with two months notice by either party (not to expire in first 12 months). Apparently this is a lot less confusing and has so far been universally well accepted.

                  Obviously, T can leave without notice at end of three years but given the demographic I rent to this is an unlikely scenario and financially much more manageable than leaving after one year.
                  Assume I know nothing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                    It is not so much that a contractual periodic tenancy takes a tenant's rights away, but rather that statute intervenes to fill the gap if the parties do not make any provision for what happens at the end of the fixed term.

                    A contractual periodic tenancy is simply one that the parties have specifically agreed.
                    Thanks for that, so are we saying that 2 months notice is right and legal or I still have my legal rights which state 1 month?

                    I've spoken to the letting agents and they have responded stating that the contract is legal and was drawn up with a property lawyer, they wont comment on the advice I've gotten from this website and shelters website which contradicts this.

                    Is it worth me getting a lawyer? If they can get out of this and still impose the two months notice then I dont want to be out of pocket by a solicitors fee also!

                    Thanks for all your help!
                    Matt

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by razorhazor View Post
                      Thanks for that, so are we saying that 2 months notice is right and legal or I still have my legal rights which state 1 month?

                      I've spoken to the letting agents and they have responded stating that the contract is legal and was drawn up with a property lawyer, they wont comment on the advice I've gotten from this website and shelters website which contradicts this.

                      Is it worth me getting a lawyer? If they can get out of this and still impose the two months notice then I dont want to be out of pocket by a solicitors fee also!

                      Thanks for all your help!
                      Matt
                      With respect you are not quite approaching this from the right angle if you think in terms of having a right to terminate the tenancy on one month's notice.

                      What the Housing Act 1988 effectively does is to give a tenant a tenancy where he needs it. In your case if you had wanted to continue in occupation you would not have needed to rely on the Act because the contractual arrangement covers the position. Having agreed the basis on which the tenancy continues you are bound by it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                        With respect you are not quite approaching this from the right angle if you think in terms of having a right to terminate the tenancy on one month's notice.

                        What the Housing Act 1988 effectively does is to give a tenant a tenancy where he needs it. In your case if you had wanted to continue in occupation you would not have needed to rely on the Act because the contractual arrangement covers the position. Having agreed the basis on which the tenancy continues you are bound by it.
                        Interesting, so even though the law states one thing, because I've signed a contract I'm bound by those rules...? even though the contract has technically expired?

                        I've checked this with my local CAB and they've come back with the following:

                        Dear Matt,

                        The law states the rules of a periodic tenancy. If they wish to dispute it, they will be disputing the law. You could write the landlord a letter, outlining why you are not paying the rent, before simply not paying the last month.

                        Regards


                        So I'm not sure which ones correct now?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by razorhazor View Post
                          even though the contract has technically expired?
                          The contract has not expired.
                          It has a provision to continue on a periodic basis in the event that you do not agree a new fixed term with the LL.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DrunkenJedi View Post
                            The contract has not expired.
                            It has a provision to continue on a periodic basis in the event that you do not agree a new fixed term with the LL.
                            Ok thanks. So contract has changed to a periodic with the term that 2 months notice is required by the tenant and because this is in the contract it superseeds the law which states a month and because I've signed the contract I am bound by the 2 months notice?

                            Thanks for your help!
                            Matt

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by razorhazor View Post
                              Ok thanks. So contract has changed to a periodic with the term that 2 months notice is required by the tenant and because this is in the contract it superseeds the law which states a month and because I've signed the contract I am bound by the 2 months notice?

                              Thanks for your help!
                              Matt
                              A tenancy agreement cannot take away your statutory rights so the notice period determined by the law overrides the notice period stated in your tenancy agreement.
                              So you only need to give 1 month's notice, which must be given no later than the first day of a rental period.
                              Practically, if you don't hand in your notice in person to the LL or LA (and get a written confirmation of this), you should allow for time in the post and obtain proof of posting, especially since you are dealing with a LL/LA who don't know the law.

                              The consensus on this site seems to be to send 2 notices to the correct party.

                              1. To either the LL or LA (this should be specified in the tenancy agreement) by normal post with a certificate of posting.
                              2. To either the LL or LA but send it by recorded delivery.

                              I would also send your notice by email and request confirmation of receipt by return.

                              Comment

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