Do I need 2 month notice again?

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  • Do I need 2 month notice again?

    Hello,
    I am a newbie.
    I would be gateful if anyone could help me with my situation.

    I have rented my house out under the AST agreement 6 months back for minimum 6 month period.
    At the same time, a posession notice has also been given to the tenant.( therefore I have given about 5 months notice for possession of my property which should coincide with the end of tenancy agreement.)

    6 months passed, the tenant is intending to extend the stay. However, I am reluctant to renew the contract as I am currently putting it on market for selling. Am I right to presume that LL & tenant automatically enter into the periodic tenacy agreement? (tenant: 1month notice & LL:: 2 months notice)

    Would the previous possession notice still valid if I decided to stop renting during PTA?(that would mean a repossession of the property instantly)
    or do I need to give a new possession notice again?

    What is the exact rights of the tenant regarding property viewings?
    Do the tenant have the absolute right to refuse viewing regardless? Do they have the right to change the lock? Are LL entitled to have a copy of the new door key?

    Finally, Is there any pitfall I should look out in tenant claiming DSS?

    Thank you in Advance.

    Kelvin

  • #2
    Originally posted by keluar View Post
    Hello,
    I am a newbie.
    I would be gateful if anyone could help me with my situation.

    I have rented my house out under the AST agreement 6 months back for minimum 6 month period.
    At the same time, a posession notice has also been given to the tenant.( therefore I have given about 5 months notice for possession of my property which should coincide with the end of tenancy agreement.)

    6 months passed, the tenant is intending to extend the stay. However, I am reluctant to renew the contract as I am currently putting it on market for selling. Am I right to presume that LL & tenant automatically enter into the periodic tenacy agreement? (tenant: 1month notice & LL:: 2 months notice)

    Yes

    Would the previous possession notice still valid if I decided to stop renting during PTA?(that would mean a repossession of the property instantly)
    or do I need to give a new possession notice again?

    It is still valid.

    What is the exact rights of the tenant regarding property viewings?
    Do the tenant have the absolute right to refuse viewing regardless?

    Yes

    Do they have the right to change the lock? Are LL entitled to have a copy of the new door key?

    I do not think they have a right to change the lock, but I am not sure. But if they do you do not have an automatic right to a key.

    Finally, Is there any pitfall I should look out in tenant claiming DSS?

    Do a search....plenty of info on this in threads recently.

    Thank you in Advance.

    Kelvin
    Answers in red.
    Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

    Comment


    • #3
      Do I need 2 month notice again

      Kevin,
      Your letter implies that your tenants have occupied your property for more than 6 months. When you set up the original AST for 6 months, you say that you also issued a notice requiring possession at the end of that time. On this basis you would expect your tenant to leave at the end of the 6 month period. Normally I think that you would have confirmed to the tenant, sometime during the tenancy, that you want the property back at 6 months; otherwise I think that the tenants would assume that they continue occupation under a periodic tenancy.
      If you are only a short time beyond the 6 months, I think you could point out the requirement (by way of your notice) for possession at 6 months and if necessary you could apply for a Possession Order.
      However, if you are well beyond the 6 month period and you simply changed your mind, you would be better advised to accept the periodic tenancy and give 2 months notice to recover your property.
      If your tenants are DSS it may be considerably more difficult to repossess if your tenants don't want to leave - the reasons for this, have been well discussed in this forum.
      Regarding right to view, the contract may say that viewing should be allowed during the last month of the tenancy. However I think that the tenants have a right to refuse to allow this, because it conflicts with their right to "quiet enjoyment" (or similar wording) of the property they are renting from you.

      Comment


      • #4
        John:

        - You are right that it is a better idea to serve the notice again, so as not to have it hanging over the tenant. However, it has been established fairly authoritively on this forum that the notice will in fact be valid indefinitely.
        - You are correct about the quiet enjoyment aspect - a landlord could not enforce such a term regarding viewings.
        Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MrShed View Post
          - You are right that it is a better idea to serve the notice again, so as not to have it hanging over the tenant.
          Doesn't that imply the LL needs to contact the tenant and mutually agree to tear up the original S21? TBH, I'm not sure many tenants actually realise that the S21 typically issued at the beginning of the tenancy actually lasts indefinitely; I'm sure the majority think that if they 'make it' past 6 months and into a periodic tenancy, then that S21 is null and void. Personally, if I wanted someone out during a periodic tenancy, then I would issue a new S21, but I'd keep in the back of my mind that I still had a valid one in force, for 'emergency' use - i.e., if a clued-up, continuing tenant raised the issue at 6 months I wouldn't object to destroying the original S21, but if not, then I wouldn't be going out of my way to highlight its existence!

          Comment


          • #6
            I might be wrong but if the LL has issued a section 21 at the start on the tenancy and it is now fallen into a periodic tenancy I am sure it is not valid now cos a differant section 21 is needed during the periodic part of the tenancy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johnboy View Post
              I might be wrong but if the LL has issued a section 21 at the start on the tenancy and it is now fallen into a periodic tenancy I am sure it is not valid now cos a differant section 21 is needed during the periodic part of the tenancy.
              But as was said in previous threads, just because the tenant ignores the notice doesn't mean it becomes invalid.

              If you want your property back immediately I suggest you remind the tenants that you have already issued them with a Section 21 notice because you wish to sell the house and unless they vacate the property you will be within your rights to go to court to get a possession order without any further discussion. Give them the opportunity to negotiate a leaving date but if they do not oblige you should not feel guilty about going straight to court. After all you will have given them the chance to 'play nicely'.

              If you are selling the property I strongly advise you get vacant possession back before you start viewings. A new purchaser will be much more reluctant to go for your property than an empty one or one where the owners live in it however much you reassure them that the tenants are leaving. When I bought my current house and I had 2 to choose from that I liked, the one with tenants in went STRAIGHT in the bin.

              Getting vacant possession will also give you the chance to clean it up, throw some paint or Flash at the walls, put in one or two tasteful pieces of furniture and really show it to its best advantage. You'll be likely to get a better price and shift it much faster than if you have viewings while tenants are still in situ.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by johnboy View Post
                I might be wrong but if the LL has issued a section 21 at the start on the tenancy and it is now fallen into a periodic tenancy I am sure it is not valid now cos a differant section 21 is needed during the periodic part of the tenancy.
                Thats depends under what section the S21 NOTICE was issued.If it has now lapsed into a perodic tenancy the tenant may claim that the notice is invalid but as the landlord has given more than two months notice he/she can start proceedings immediatly.
                Disclaimer:I have over 30 years experience in housing(both social and private) as an EHO and Building Surveyor.I am also a certified expert witness having spent the last 15years working in housing litigation.The advice I give is from experience in working for various Local Authorities and how the law is interpretated.Housing Law is a minefield and is continually being amended if in any doubt you should consult a solicitor or someone of equal legal standing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MrShed View Post
                  However, it has been established fairly authoritively on this forum that the notice will in fact be valid indefinitely.
                  Yes. Searching for sword of Damocles will bring up previous threads on this.
                  ~~~~~

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                  • #10
                    Thank you very much for all your help

                    Kelvin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In other words, it is much safer option to reissue a s21 again.
                      Just out of curiosity, is there a periodic tenancy agreement form at all?
                      or the AST automatically becomes PTA?

                      Kelvin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No forms as far as I am aware. Original fixed AST becomes periodic at end of fixed term.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by keluar View Post
                          In other words, it is much safer option to reissue a s21 again.
                          Just out of curiosity, is there a periodic tenancy agreement form at all?
                          or the AST automatically becomes PTA?

                          Kelvin
                          No no form....if there was one it would become a standard AST again basically.
                          Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you very much.

                            Kelvin

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