evict a non rent paying, blackmailing tenant - Courts no help at all!!

[property mongrel]

Maybe there could be a fresh start? Unfortunately what I know about LL v T law could be written on the edge of a tiny stamp. The act of taking a new T on a 5 year TA may not be everyones choice, but you have done it, so now you have to deal with it.

To go back a little bit, can you please answer the following questions put by westminster in post 5?

You do not say why the s.8 application failed; has the T reduced the rent owing and unpaid to less than two months, did he defend on the basis of disrepair, etc? Do you know why your application failed?
Please give some more details:

1. Date fixed term commenced, length of term?
2. Is rent payable monthly or weekly?
3. Was a deposit paid, if so was it protected and the prescribed info given to T?
4. Date s.8 was served and what grounds it cited?
5. Date s.21 was served and what date it expired (exact wording, e.g. "on 2nd February" "after 2nd February")?
6. Did you obtain proof of service of notices?
7. What date you started the possession claim and what form(s) you used?

Please answer the questions in order, thanks.

pm

[westminster]

Courts are currently asking me to pay £600+ for a small hearing to take place. What a complete and utter farce!

My words 'What a complete and utter farce!' actually refers to the judicial system and the apparent lack of justice for landlords.

farce, n. A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery.

Calling the judicial system a 'farce' indicates that you regard it with a degree of contempt, and although I must take your word for it that you don't, in fact, regard it as 'stupid', you can surely understand how I arrived at such an assumption.

The law attempts to be evenly weighted and to favour neither one party nor the other. Inevitably, there will be winners and losers, and often there will be one party who thinks the law is unfair (I've lost count of the times both landlords and tenants complain on here that it's unfairly weighted against them).

Like it or not, the tenant is entitled to have his defence to your possession claim heard and considered before he is evicted from his home. If his disrepair claim is valid, (and it's for the court to decide this, not you), then the T might be awarded damages which, when set against the unpaid rent, remove the criterion for fulfilling ground 8.

And like it or not, it costs money to run the court service, so they have to charge court fees.

If you don't understand or agree with the law and the legal system, and consider it a 'farce', then perhaps you shouldn't be a landlord.

Thanks for the advice- engaging the services of somebody who knows more about this. I have to admit that the thought did occur to me at the beginning of this sorry saga and gosh if I had the funds to do so I would have done.

You said in post #16 that you were considering paying the tenant thousands to go. I pointed out that it would be cheaper to get legal advice. I even told you how you could potentially save money by going direct to a barrister, and provided a link for how to find one.

I'm sorry you think my advice is too obvious to be of any value to you, and no doubt you were fully aware of public access to barristers and how to find one, but it remains good advice, given your limited understanding of eviction procedure. And the longer it takes you to evict the tenant, the more unpaid rent will mount up, a debt which you'll have little hope of recovering from a tenant on benefits.

[Snorkerz]

Maybe there could be a fresh start? Unfortunately what I know about LL v T law could be written on the edge of a tiny stamp. The act of taking a new T on a 5 year TA may not be everyones choice, but you have done it, so now you have to deal with it.

To go back a little bit, can you please answer the following questions put by westminster in post 5?

Please answer the questions in order, thanks.

pm

PM - wise words indeed.

landlady_uk has been asked to answer these Qs multiple times and last viewed this site some 50 minutes after your post, so I can only assume she doesn't want to answer these questions for some reason.

If you are reading this landlady_uk, please follow PMs advice - you want some sensible advice? Then give us the facts so that we can ensure the advice is appropriate.

[landlady_uk]

PM - wise words indeed.

landlady_uk has been asked to answer these Qs multiple times and last viewed this site some 50 minutes after your post, so I can only assume she doesn't want to answer these questions for some reason.

If you are reading this landlady_uk, please follow PMs advice - you want some sensible advice? Then give us the facts so that we can ensure the advice is appropriate.

Unfortunatly I did not have the case documents to hand as I work away from home during the week. Will be returning home this evening and as PM suggested I shall endevour to provide a response to the question tonight.

many thanks

[landlady_uk]

Unfortunatly I did not have the case documents to hand as I work away from home during the week. Will be returning home this evening and as PM suggested I shall endevour to provide a response to the question tonight.

many thanks

The plot thickens!

I have received a phone call from the council. They relieved an email from somebody with my full name, requesting that the little rent that I do receive from DSS (which makes up a fraction of the monthly agreed rent) be directed back to the tenant. The tenant created this email address using my details and is impersonating me. Asking for the rent to be paid to him..


‘dear revenues & benefits
i write with regards the houseing benefits payments that are currently being paid direct to my self
for my tenants xx , xx, xx ,,,,
i now wish to cancel the payments direct to my self ......
xx has managed to clear all the rent arrears with my self and has arranged with my self
to pay me the rent weekly out of his working tac credit ....
as of today there are no rent arrears ..
i would ask to contact the tenants regards making payments direcy to them ... ‘

[Snorkerz]

The plot thickens!

I have received a phone call from the council. They relieved an email from somebody with my full name, requesting that the little rent that I do receive from DSS (which makes up a fraction of the monthly agreed rent) be directed back to the tenant. The tenant created this email address using my details and is impersonating me. Asking for the rent to be paid to him..


‘dear revenues & benefits
i write with regards the houseing benefits payments that are currently being paid direct to my self
for my tenants xx , xx, xx ,,,,
i now wish to cancel the payments direct to my self ......
xx has managed to clear all the rent arrears with my self and has arranged with my self
to pay me the rent weekly out of his working tac credit ....
as of today there are no rent arrears ..
i would ask to contact the tenants regards making payments direcy to them ... ‘

That would seem to be fraud - contact the police.

[jta]

Also, from what you have been saying there seems to be a case for using S8 Ground 17 as well.

Were I you I would attempt to speak directly to a CID officer to explain what is happening. It would not surprise me if he did not identify half a dozen offences in your tenant's behaviour, and the police do like an easy nick where the culprit has incriminated himself. They are more aware than the muppets on the front counter.

If he did originate that email to the council then I doubt he's got the brains to remove it altogether from his hard drive or history. Go for him, get him nicked.

[landlady_uk]

That would seem to be fraud - contact the police.

Thanks Snorkerz.

[landlady_uk]

Also, from what you have been saying there seems to be a case for using S8 Ground 17 as well.

Were I you I would attempt to speak directly to a CID officer to explain what is happening. It would not surprise me if he did not identify half a dozen offences in your tenant's behaviour, and the police do like an easy nick where the culprit has incriminated himself. They are more aware than the muppets on the front counter.

Thanks JTA..

[landlady_uk]

If he did originate that email to the council then I doubt he's got the brains to remove it altogether from his hard drive or history. Go for him, get him nicked.

Will the police take any action? As this is a civil matter - landlord in the process of evicting tenant they may not wish to get involved despite the false impersonation email as evidence.

[theartfullodger]

The fraud - on HB/LHA - is a criminal matter... and it sounds like an easy collar...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents

PS Just because he is (if he is..) arrested, put on remand or even convicted does not necessarily mean the tenancy has ended....

[westminster]

Will the police take any action? As this is a civil matter - landlord in the process of evicting tenant they may not wish to get involved despite the false impersonation email as evidence.

Fraud is not a civil matter, it's a criminal offence.

But before you go racing down another blind alley, let's remind ourselves of what the objective is: a possession order.

There are mandatory grounds and discretionary grounds under Schedule 2. Even if T were arrested or convicted for fraud, this does not provide a mandatory ground for a possession order. Two months' unpaid rent does. So the focus must be on refuting T's allegations below, and putting him to strict proof.

as i have not heard from you ... i have desided to put a counter claim in agaist you

for the following
1 / loss earnings of 2,000 for recovery jobs that we have had to cencel
due to our time being wasted on this court case ...

2/ money for the doors / handles plus fitting of 2 doors 433.65

3 / money we had to paid to get bathroom light sorted 60.00

4/ repayment of 2,500 rent / houseing benefit you have recived on the grounds

the property has been let to us in an unlawful and unsafe condtion

comfirmed by the inspector on the inspection ...

If you go to the hearing waving evidence that T has been arrested for fraud, and accusing him of 'blackmail', but fail to address T's claims, you might well walk away without a possession order.

[landlady_uk]

Thanks artful dodger and westminster..

WM you are right my main objective is to evict the tenant and his 2 sons.

Would you advise that I contact the police and advise them of the fraudulent activity?

[jta]

There are quite few things in your posts that point to criminal rather than civil complaints. If you can find a sympathetic CID ear then you may be surprised at how they view it. The impersonation thing is quite definitely criminal. There is evidence of it and they would have to investigate..........but you may have to insist and persevere. The guy is an obvious crook so do yer dooty

[westminster]

Thanks artful dodger and westminster..

WM you are right my main objective is to evict the tenant and his 2 sons.

Would you advise that I contact the police and advise them of the fraudulent activity?

Yes, you should report a suspected criminal offence, but the point both I and artful were making is that a conviction won't, in itself, guarantee you a possession order, and that's what you should be focussing on - demolishing the T's allegations. Put him to strict proof. Gather your own evidence.

It would also be highly advisable to protect the deposit the T has paid with the DPS, and provide T with the prescribed information (keeping a copy and proof of posting).
http://www.depositprotection.com/

If you don't, then T may bring a counterclaim for non-compliance - the potential penalty is 3x the value of the deposit. Again, this is something which could potentially be set against the unpaid rent, and cause the possession claim to fail.