evict a non rent paying, blackmailing tenant - Courts no help at all!!

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    #16
    Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
    I would say keep it simple, just argue the case on ground 8,10,11(Non payment of rent grounds), all the rest will cloud the situation. With the S21 he could agrue about the deposit or that the AST was for 3 years, as you got no paper work, how can you prove either way.
    I afraid the courts, don't like chucking people out on the street, regardless of what the law says, so the courts, will in the majority of cases give the T as much time as they can.

    The only way is either
    1) Do nothing (And he never leaves)
    2) To pay him off.
    3) To do the court process by yourself(And get pushed from pillar to post, as he will get a lot of free advise and all he has to do is wait until he prompts you into doing something wrong, and you may end up paying him).
    4) Pay a professional L&T lawyer, to fight your case.(But will cost money, as landlord don't get free advise like Ts).

    I would suggest do either 2 or 4.

    Option 2, because you not going to get any money from him, because he got none, and because you can't get a rent paying T in there until he gone.
    Once he gone, hopefully you can go to court and get a CCJ against him, so it's easier for other landlords to spot him.

    Option 4, will take a little longer, I doubt you get any money, but you will sleep better at night and he may think twice about doing it again to another LL, plus it be easier for other LL to stop him as will have a CCJ.

    In a business sense i guess, it's better to pay him off and move on, but I think in this sense us LL are our worst enemy, as it's the only reason why Ts think they can get away with it.

    Hope this helps
    Hi, Thanks for your response MJBFire,

    To be honest I am considering paying off the rodent! His previous landlady had to pay him £3000 to leave her property – and I know that he will wants thousands to leave – which unfortuantly I do not have.

    One other option could be to start the whole process again – I.e give the tenant notice to leave and go through the courts again – will be easier and cheaper as Courts are currently asking me to pay £600+ for a small hearing to take place. What a complete and utter farce!

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by landlady_uk View Post
      . What a complete and utter farce!
      There's lots of sensible advice in this thread, which you don't seem to have taken on board. Read post #12 again, and act on the advice in it, rather than going round in more circles.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by jta View Post
        Was this registered? All tenancies over 3 years have to be.
        Originally posted by landlady_uk View Post
        I have not registered this tenancy agreement. Who would I need to register with?
        Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
        There is no need to register the tenancy agreement
        I agree. A Lease or Letting Agreement for fixed term >3yrs. must be in writing (not just oral).
        Only a Lease or Letting Agreement for fixed term >7yrs. has to be:
        a. by Deed (not just in writing); and
        b. registered at HMLR.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Sad S View Post
          There's lots of sensible advice in this thread, which you don't seem to have taken on board. Read post #12 again, and act on the advice in it, rather than going round in more circles.
          Thank you SAD S.

          I have taken on board the comments provided within this thread; which is why I posted my issue on this forum in the first place - to gain advise from more experienced parties . My words 'What a complete and utter farce!' actually refers to the judicial system and the apparent lack of justice for landlords. Sorry if you do not agree with this but my experience with courts/judge has not exactly instilled me with confidence for the justice system!

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            I agree. A Lease or Letting Agreement for fixed term >3yrs. must be in writing (not just oral).
            Only a Lease or Letting Agreement for fixed term >7yrs. has to be:
            a. by Deed (not just in writing); and
            b. registered at HMLR.
            Thank you for clarifying Jeffrey :0)

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by landlady_uk View Post
              To be honest I am considering paying off the rodent! His previous landlady had to pay him £3000 to leave her property – and I know that he will wants thousands to leave – which unfortuantly I do not have.

              One other option could be to start the whole process again – I.e give the tenant notice to leave and go through the courts again – will be easier and cheaper as Courts are currently asking me to pay £600+ for a small hearing to take place. What a complete and utter farce!
              You cannot blame the law or the judiciary for your stupidity in agreeing a five year fixed term, (which means that you can't use the guaranteed route to possession - s.21 - before the fixed term expires), and your stupidity in failing to carry out thorough referencing before taking this tenant on (it's pointless contacting previous LLs after the event).

              It'd almost certainly be cheaper to pay a specialist to pursue the s.8 claim than to give money to the tenant (and if you attempt to DIY a surrender, what could easily happen is that you pay money to T and T still doesn't move out). In your shoes, I'd cut out the middle man (i.e. solicitor) and go direct to a barrister. See this link to find a specialist in Landlord & Tenant law in your area:
              http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about/f...ess-directory/

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by westminster View Post
                You cannot blame the law or the judiciary for your stupidity in agreeing a five year fixed term, (which means that you can't use the guaranteed route to possession - s.21 - before the fixed term expires), and your stupidity in failing to carry out thorough referencing before taking this tenant on (it's pointless contacting previous LLs after the event).

                It'd almost certainly be cheaper to pay a specialist to pursue the s.8 claim than to give money to the tenant (and if you attempt to DIY a surrender, what could easily happen is that you pay money to T and T still doesn't move out). In your shoes, I'd cut out the middle man (i.e. solicitor) and go direct to a barrister. See this link to find a specialist in Landlord & Tenant law in your area:
                http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about/f...ess-directory/


                No – you are right BUT I can blame the law and the JUDGE for not ordering the eviction of the tenant DESPITE my s8 notice citing ground 8 (rental arrears owed exceeding more than 2 months which is a mandatory ground for possession). My original paperwork was in order with evidencee that the tenant owed me over 2 months in rental. The judge should granted me possession of my property.

                ‘Your stupidity in failing to carry out thorough referencing ’. I actually did complete the referencing prior to signing the tenancy agreement – turns out the T had provided false references. Once I began civil proceedings I investigated further and found the genuine previous LL.
                ‘Your stupidity in agreeing a five year fixed term’. The tenant assured me he was looking for a long term let – he said and assured me he would look after the property etc. This coupled with his references assured me into thinking that signing a 5 year lease would be beneficial for both parties.

                I certainly would not call this stupidity, and I fail to see how such comments are helpful to this thread – I agree my naivety and being far too trusting in other people is more pertaining in this case.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by landlady_uk View Post
                  I certainly would not call this stupidity, and I fail to see how such comments are helpful to this thread
                  I was merely responding to your equally irrelevant comments regarding the stupidity of the law and judiciary.

                  You say that the tenant 'knows the law inside out'. Has it not occurred to you that if you engage the services of someone who knows more about it than the tenant, that your chances of success will increase?

                  You have two options:

                  1. Act upon the practical advice you have been given.
                  2. Ignore the advice and continue to go round in circles, complaining that it's all the law's fault.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by westminster View Post
                    I was merely responding to your equally irrelevant comments regarding the stupidity of the law and judiciary.

                    You say that the tenant 'knows the law inside out'. Has it not occurred to you that if you engage the services of someone who knows more about it than the tenant, that your chances of success will increase?

                    You have two options:

                    1. Act upon the practical advice you have been given.
                    2. Ignore the advice and continue to go round in circles, complaining that it's all the law's fault.

                    Not in one of my posts have I referred to the law or judiciary as ‘stupidity’ as you claimed above. These are your words that you are attempting to project onto me. I have claimed that there has been injustice in the law – I.E. – I paid the relevant court fees, completed relevant paperwork, attended court and still nothing. They are nothing more than a money making scheme, and to top it all of when I wanted to complain, I was told to pay further money!

                    Thanks for the advice- engaging the services of somebody who knows more about this. I have to admit that the thought did occur to me at the beginning of this sorry saga and gosh if I had the funds to do so I would have done.

                    I do not appreciate your tone nor your patrionising comments!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      You seem to expect the courts to agree with you, without them having had a hearing to so they can decide the issue properly. You claim the tenant is blackmailing you, in fact they've made a settlement offer because of a counter-claim. Bogus or not, it's not blackmail. You've taken a deposit, apparently without protecting it, an act which is completely illegal.

                      Westminster is under no obligation to address you in a pleasing tone. Neither am I or anyone else on here.
                      Disclaimer:

                      The above represents my own opinion, derived from personal knowledge and should not be relied upon as definitive or accurate advice. It is offered free of charge and may contain errors or omissions or be an inaccurate opinion of the law. I accept no liability for any loss or damage suffered as a result of relying on the above.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by bhaal View Post
                        You seem to expect the courts to agree with you, without them having had a hearing to so they can decide the issue properly. You claim the tenant is blackmailing you, in fact they've made a settlement offer because of a counter-claim. Bogus or not, it's not blackmail. You've taken a deposit, apparently without protecting it, an act which is completely illegal.

                        Westminster is under no obligation to address you in a pleasing tone. Neither am I or anyone else on here.
                        The law specifys that if a tenant owes more than 2 months rent to the tenant this is a mandatory ground for posession. This was the main reason cited in s8 to evict the tenant. Perhaps they should change the wording of the law from mandatory to non mandotry as this was certainly not applied in my case.
                        I gathered that, everybody has their own opinions but if i wanted to be spoken to that in that manner I would have just spoken to the illiterate idiotic tenant staying in my house!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by bhaal View Post
                          You seem to expect the courts to agree with you, without them having had a hearing to so they can decide the issue properly. You claim the tenant is blackmailing you, in fact they've made a settlement offer because of a counter-claim. Bogus or not, it's not blackmail. You've taken a deposit, apparently without protecting it, an act which is completely illegal.

                          Westminster is under no obligation to address you in a pleasing tone. Neither am I or anyone else on here.
                          AND I do not expect to be spoken to in a pleasing tone. A POLITE tone would have sufficed, there is no need to address me from a superior and condescending tone!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Madam: If your style & attitude here are anything to go by I'm beginning to sympathise with the Tenant and suspect any Judge hearing from you might also sympathise with T...

                            The landlording game is about (IMHO..), amongst other things, making money (long-term), ensuring your paperwork is right, winning cases at court and keeping good relationships - if at all possible - with tenants, agents and neighbours... 5 year tenancy deal?? I fail to see any circumstances when I'd even consider one...

                            Courts?? I've found them helpful, considerate - but I took the trouble to take advice, be patient, ensure my cases are succinct, clear & well presented.


                            Best wishes to all, including those who disagree with me...

                            Artful

                            PS & re. Westminster's advice on this board (provided free, gratis..) I have greatest regard for and is incredibly valuable and of high quality...
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Maybe, landlady_uk, you could take a step back from the keyboard before responding with another salvo, and consider what you want to achieve by posting questions here?

                              If I were in your shoes I would look at what I have done thus far and what it has gained for me in terms of progress? You may well have gone down a certain route to regain possession in the belief that success and satisfaction were guaranteed but that did not work, for various reasons. It might be an idea to put that route behind you and start afresh with advice from the many experienced and wise heads on the site?

                              It may be that your Court paperwork was not up to scratch?

                              It may be that whoever did your referencing for you, let you down and was inefficient, caught out and did not check the refrences thoroughly enough, hence you are in the predicament you are in at the moment?

                              All this is rather by the by.

                              Why not just answer all the questions put to you, which are asked so that members here can help you, start by answering all the questions in post 5.

                              It appears to me that you are being "played" by a professional T, and if you do not wise up you may be without rent for a lot longer. I believe that if you help others to help you they will still respond with advice where they can.

                              FWIW I am sorry that you are in such a mess, but it's now a game you have to win.

                              atb

                              pm
                              Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by property mongrel View Post
                                Maybe, landlady_uk, you could take a step back from the keyboard before responding with another salvo, and consider what you want to achieve by posting questions here?

                                If I were in your shoes I would look at what I have done thus far and what it has gained for me in terms of progress? You may well have gone down a certain route to regain possession in the belief that success and satisfaction were guaranteed but that did not work, for various reasons. It might be an idea to put that route behind you and start afresh with advice from the many experienced and wise heads on the site?

                                It may be that your Court paperwork was not up to scratch?

                                It may be that whoever did your referencing for you, let you down and was inefficient, caught out and did not check the refrences thoroughly enough, hence you are in the predicament you are in at the moment?

                                All this is rather by the by.

                                Why not just answer all the questions put to you, which are asked so that members here can help you, start by answering all the questions in post 5.

                                It appears to me that you are being "played" by a professional T, and if you do not wise up you may be without rent for a lot longer. I believe that if you help others to help you they will still respond with advice where they can.

                                FWIW I am sorry that you are in such a mess, but it's now a game you have to win.

                                atb

                                pm
                                I am grateful for the positive advice and comments I have recieved from the members thus far.. the past 9 months has been a living nightmare for me, affecting my health and my finances are deplting rapidly; The worst thing is that it seems like this nightmare will never end.

                                I do not expect to be addressed in a pleasing tone, nor be mollycoddled - I registered on this forum in hope of some assistance, which members have provided.

                                It is not in my nature to be rude, ungrateful and I apologise if that comes across via my posts; but comments such as 'stupidity' & 'failed spectacularly' are not only upsetting but really does not help my situation.

                                Comment

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