no bathroom light/fan - can it wait until Tuesday onwards?

[Scrungy]

Personally, I wouldnt allow a tenant anywhere near the consumer unit. If it trips, there is an underlying cause and I want to know what that underlying problem is.

Tenants are not electricians and allowing them unfettered access (with your explicit permission/instruction) to the consumer unit is asking for trouble. Should the tenant suffer eletric shock or electrocution you can bet you bottom dollar YOU will be held responsible.

I understand case law states tenants are expected to perform "basic household duties". However, this conflicts wildly with the HSE 'duty of care' and 'competent person' and possibly Tort.

1. Should the tenant slip in the bath - who do you think will be liable? YOU....no light in bathroom.
2. Should the tenant suffer electric shock - who do you think is liable? YOU ..... you gave them free access to consumer unit without first checking they were a competent person or doing a risk assement
3. Should tenant suffer electrocution - who going to prison? YOU.... no risk assement and unfettered access on your explicit instruction

You have a duty to supply instruction manuals for appliances. It is YOUR responsibility to provide them.

We dont allow (or expect) tenants to go anywhere near the consumer unit. If an MCB/RCD trips, we investigate and re-set it.
We provide instruction manuals for appliances - easily downloaded from lots of websites.
We expect tenants to replace light bulbs. Although we will replace them if they require ladder useage free of charge (tenant buys bulb - we fit them)


Dont put it off....and DONT tell tenant to start doing DIY on the electrics!!!

This is mostly quite alarmist really and not helpful.

You cannot be electrocuted from accessing the consumer unit and resetting the RCD, unless of course potentially, the consumer unit has been badly/incorrectly/illegally fitted, in which case the LL would be liable.
Its called a consumer unit for a reason.

The only argument I might agree with is if the tenant slipped in the bathroom with no light on, but then I would also wonder why the tenant is taking a bath without light?
They could use a torch for WC/brushing teeth etc., for a few days.

This and your other postings makes me understand why you have the screen name that you have.

[mind the gap]

MTG - apology not necessary, your last made me chuckle, I would not mind a pint of what you are on today. Very entertaining.



pm

The irony is that nothing more inebriating than tea has passed my lips for about a week! 'Drunk with fatigue, perhaps as Owen called it, although fortunately not for the same reasons as he was.

[property mongrel]

Glad it all worked out maxine. Maybe worth taking a little extra care for this particular T?

MTG - apology not necessary, your last made me chuckle, I would not mind a pint of what you are on today. Very entertaining.

Boletus, most of my H & S comments were TIC, but one persons acceptable risk is anothers non acceptable risk and I suspect the advice given was well meant.

pm

[mind the gap]

MTG - in your post 12 you defend yourself against something that I did not say that you said in a post that you did not make, number 6. Are you, as a Senior Member, having a senior moment? I would not buy a replacement unit just yet.

I see what you mean - apologies!

I also see the logic in your argument about what's probably wrong with OP's lights/fan, but if it is convenient for her to buy a new fan just in case (and return it unused if need be), I would do it anyway. Sod's Law dictates that if she does not, then the electrician, who'll be called Terry or Kevin or Ryan, will decide a new fan is called for, at which point the £ signs in his eyeballs will start spinning as he drives off slowly off in his white van, setting his satnav to the furthest branch of Wickes or B & Q he can think of which will still allow him to complete the job, knock off by 4 p.m. and present his invoice for £264 + VAT.

[boletus]

Well done maxine, for applying common sense after some of the ridiculous H&S comments on here.

[maxine]

Thanks for all your help - I had just posted my last response when the tenant called again. He hadn't actually tried the trip switch despite telling me he had - his friend had just done it for him and all is well - lights and fan are working and he just needs to replace one of the bulbs that is dead. I've thanked him for letting me know and have arranged a day to go along and go through everything with him again - ie the consumer unit/stop tap/how to isolate the gas etc. I think I may use luggage tags and tie them to the appropriate places with simple instructions on. Where ever I have lived (in my own property and rented property) the first thing I have always checked has been where is the fuse box/stop tap/gas tap and how do I get out in a fire. I did show and tell the tenant all of these things but didn't labour the point. as I (wrongly) assumed that as an educated gent in his late 30's and a serial renter, he would have come across these before.

[property mongrel]

MTG - in your post 12 you defend yourself against something that I did not say that you said in a post that you did not make, number 6. Are you, as a Senior Member, having a senior moment? I would not buy a replacement unit just yet.

maxine, you say that T has risked his life and soul and reset the trip and now nothing is working, nothing at all or just the bathroom light and fan? Are any other lights affected or does T have lights elsewhere in the property, and in particular does T have ceiling lights elsewhere on the same floor as the bathroom? If you can isolate what is wrong, the circuit or the light fitting or the switch or the bulb then you may not have to call an electrician. When T reset the trip switch and turned the bathroom light on did the trip go again?

If it were me, I would check for power at the switch and the fitting, and that all the connections are good, and that the MCB is not faulty. If you do not know how to do this without instructions then it would be safer to get someone in.

pm

[Springfields]

A sense of proportion would seem to be indicated - that is, after all, what a judge would apply in the unlikely event of the T claiming his life was imperilled by being made to re-set a trip switch designed for just that purpose.

I completely agree, modern consumer switches trip when a bulb goes, get a tenant who has a thing for cheap bulbs and you're in and out of the house like a fiddlers elbow!

When called out we always ask the tenant to try resetting, if theres a fault it will trip again. Same goes for if the sockets trip, take all the appliances out (even the little harmless looking bedside table), see if the board clears, most times it springs back to life!

[mind the gap]

property mongrel - there is one pull cord - it turns on the lights and the fan - however the fan does not continue to run once the lights have been switched off which is different to the light/fans in my own home which do. The tenant telephoned me again this morning to say he had reset the trip switch and nothing was working so I am happy to call an electrician on Tuesday morning. Would you suggest I buy a replacement fan in anticipation for them arriving?

That would seem like a good idea, as long as you can return it and get a refund if it turns out that a new fan isn't in fact what's needed.

[maxine]

property mongrel - there is one pull cord - it turns on the lights and the fan - however the fan does not continue to run once the lights have been switched off which is different to the light/fans in my own home which do. The tenant telephoned me again this morning to say he had reset the trip switch and nothing was working so I am happy to call an electrician on Tuesday morning. Would you suggest I buy a replacement fan in anticipation for them arriving?

[mind the gap]

There was no inference whatsoever that an electrician should come out on a Bank Holiday because it is only a one hour job (actually more like 15 minutes but chargeable for an hour!!). As for 3 hour round trip (chargeable??!!!) to get spare I will make no comment!!

You have clearly never called an electrician out for a minor job on New Year's Day! However simple or complex the job it would end up costing a large amount of money, when it is not necessary

merely that it is a simple and straightforward task, which it is, and has nothing to do with the consumer unit as reportedly the same floor level lights are still on!!!!!!

T would still need to isolate the affected light before replacing the bulb, to be safe.

Think this thread is starting to gain its own energy for what is, in my view, a minor matter!! Perhaps the hangovers are still kicking in.

Speak for yourself. I've had no alcohol at all for the last week!

[Ericthelobster]

We dont allow (or expect) tenants to go anywhere near the consumer unit. If an MCB/RCD trips, we investigate and re-set it.
[...]
We expect tenants to replace light bulbs. Although we will replace them if they require ladder useage free of charge (tenant buys bulb - we fit them)

But what happens if the tenant forgets to isolate the light before removing the dead bulb, and then touches the live terminals? After you have specifically instructed him to do this?

But conversely you won't let the tenant flick an MCB switch?? They can trip for all sorts of reasons, many of which are totally inoccuous: a blown lightbulb being the most common cause. If the problem is serious, the MCB can't be reset, simple.

Below is the end-user instruction manual for a consumer unit fitted just before Xmas for a newly tenanted property of mine (the tenants have been provided with a copy) and which clearly states they should do in the event of a trip. I would certainly expect my tenants to do this, as part of behaving in a 'tenant-like manner'...

[Solent Watcher]

Snowball Land!!!

There was no inference whatsoever that an electrician should come out on a Bank Holiday because it is only a one hour job (actually more like 15 minutes but chargeable for an hour!!). As for 3 hour round trip (chargeable??!!!) to get spare I will make no comment!! merely that it is a simple and straightforward task, which it is, and has nothing to do with the consumer unit as reportedly the same floor level lights are still on!!!!!! Think this thread is starting to gain its own energy for what is, in my view, a minor matter!! Perhaps the hangovers are still kicking in.

[mind the gap]

Regarding post 6: prohibitive cost is not a good enough reason to present to a court for not doing the right thing.

pm

I agree with you, but I did not say it was! In context: the previous poster had said that an electrician could do the job in less than an hour, inferring incidentally that that this would be a reason to get said electrician out on a Bank Holiday. All I said (based on my experience of electricians, especially on Bank Holidays!) was that this was an unrealistic estimate.

It is still my opinion that the partial loss of light and use of extractor fan in a bathroom for a T who wll not even try resetting a trip switch or changing a light bulb first, does not constitute an emergency for which an electrician should be instantly summoned -always assuming you can get hold of one.

Can we please put paid to all this nonsense about not allowing a T to access a consumer unit to flick a switch if necessary? This is nannyism at its worst! Resetting a trip switch on a modern consumer unit is a tenantlike thing to do. We do not ban Ts from fitting a tap washer in case they flood the house and drown, or from boiling a kettle to deforst a condensate pipe in case they scald themselves.

A sense of proportion would seem to be indicated - that is, after all, what a judge would apply in the unlikely event of the T claiming his life was imperilled by being made to re-set a trip switch designed for just that purpose.

An electrically safe consumer unit, supported by valid, current certificate produced after inspection by a competent qualified electrician, should be enough to protect LL from any claim. If OP does not have such a certificate, then clearly her position is weakened in theory, although I suspect not in practice.

[property mongrel]

maxine - is the unit a combined light and fan in one unit? Or, is the fan a separate unit from the light fitting with a switch or a pull chord, and the fan comes on automatically with an overrun so that when the light is turned off the fan continues for some time afterwards? Or, does the fan have it's own pull chord or switch?

pm