no bathroom light/fan - can it wait until Tuesday onwards?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    no bathroom light/fan - can it wait until Tuesday onwards?

    Happy new year all. I have just received a call from my tenant saying the bathroom light/fan (it's the type where you pull the chord and the fan comes on with the lights) has stopped working. I have asked him to check the fuse box as everything else is still working - but I am reluctant to pay bank holiday rates for something I personally don't consider an emergency. There is a large window for ventilation/light and the hall light is outside the bathroom door which he could use in the dark (he lives alone I hasten to add). Is it reasonable to ask him to wait until the bank holiday weekend is over?

    #2
    IMO it's reasonable for your tenant to wait 'til tuesday... but not 'onwards'.
    Reassure him you're taking it seriously and dealing with it.
    I'd hazard a guess that the switch is faulty.

    Comment


      #3
      Has tenant checked the fuse box/circuit breakers?
      Has he checked to see whether the "bulb" has blown? - this could trip the circuit breaker and put both out of action.
      If so, then it's HIS responsibility to replace it and not yours.

      Comment


        #4
        thanks for your responses. The reason I said Tuesday "onwards" - is I don't expect local electricians will be answering their phones on bank holiday Monday, and the chance of getting a decent electrician out same day around here are slim. He hadn't checked the fuses and to be honest I don't think he fully understands his obligations as a tenant as the last time I visited the property (the week he moved in) he asked me to set the central heating timer, how to use the washer drier (it's his appliance not mine!) and to change the gas and electricity supplier at the property to the cheapest available when he is responsible for utilities. I have asked him to ring me if resetting the trip switch does nothing so I will await his call and take it from there.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by maxine View Post
          thanks for your responses. The reason I said Tuesday "onwards" - is I don't expect local electricians will be answering their phones on bank holiday Monday, and the chance of getting a decent electrician out same day around here are slim. He hadn't checked the fuses and to be honest I don't think he fully understands his obligations as a tenant as the last time I visited the property (the week he moved in) he asked me to set the central heating timer, how to use the washer drier (it's his appliance not mine!) and to change the gas and electricity supplier at the property to the cheapest available when he is responsible for utilities. I have asked him to ring me if resetting the trip switch does nothing so I will await his call and take it from there.
          Personally, I wouldnt allow a tenant anywhere near the consumer unit. If it trips, there is an underlying cause and I want to know what that underlying problem is.

          Tenants are not electricians and allowing them unfettered access (with your explicit permission/instruction) to the consumer unit is asking for trouble. Should the tenant suffer eletric shock or electrocution you can bet you bottom dollar YOU will be held responsible.

          I understand case law states tenants are expected to perform "basic household duties". However, this conflicts wildly with the HSE 'duty of care' and 'competent person' and possibly Tort.

          1. Should the tenant slip in the bath - who do you think will be liable? YOU....no light in bathroom.
          2. Should the tenant suffer electric shock - who do you think is liable? YOU ..... you gave them free access to consumer unit without first checking they were a competent person or doing a risk assement
          3. Should tenant suffer electrocution - who going to prison? YOU.... no risk assement and unfettered access on your explicit instruction

          You have a duty to supply instruction manuals for appliances. It is YOUR responsibility to provide them.

          We dont allow (or expect) tenants to go anywhere near the consumer unit. If an MCB/RCD trips, we investigate and re-set it.
          We provide instruction manuals for appliances - easily downloaded from lots of websites.
          We expect tenants to replace light bulbs. Although we will replace them if they require ladder useage free of charge (tenant buys bulb - we fit them)


          Dont put it off....and DONT tell tenant to start doing DIY on the electrics!!!

          Comment


            #6
            I didn't ask him to do diy on the electrics- resetting a trip switch is not diy. Surely consumer units would not have trip switches if no one other than electricians were supposed to touch them? And as many blown fuses are due to nothing more sinister than a bulb blowing it would become prohibitively expensive to call an electrician every time something like that happened. The reason I have not supplied instruction manuals for appliances is because the property is unfurnished - the only "appliance" is the boiler which has an instruction manual the tenant did not read. As long as it is not illegal to do so I am happy to allow the tenant to flick the trip switch and change a light bulb - I think they are basic life skills most adults should have acquired. If he would like to sue me for him choosing to take a bath in the dark when there are at least 8 hours of daylight at the moment then I would leave it up to a Judge to decide if I had acted illegally or irresponsibly.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by maxine View Post
              I didn't ask him to do diy on the electrics- resetting a trip switch is not diy. Surely consumer units would not have trip switches if no one other than electricians were supposed to touch them? And as many blown fuses are due to nothing more sinister than a bulb blowing it would become prohibitively expensive to call an electrician every time something like that happened. The reason I have not supplied instruction manuals for appliances is because the property is unfurnished - the only "appliance" is the boiler which has an instruction manual the tenant did not read. As long as it is not illegal to do so I am happy to allow the tenant to flick the trip switch and change a light bulb - I think they are basic life skills most adults should have acquired. If he would like to sue me for him choosing to take a bath in the dark when there are at least 8 hours of daylight at the moment then I would leave it up to a Judge to decide if I had acted illegally or irresponsibly.
              I agree. It is not as though you are expecting your tenant to rewire the whole house, for goodness sake! We expect our student tenants to reset tripped switches because we know there is no danger of electrocution from their doing so. To suggest otherwise is just plain alarmist.

              I do not think it is reasonable of the T to expect you to pay Bank Holiday callout charges for a blown light in the bathroom. If he is too clueless to change a lightbulb or reset the trip switch, he can always shower in daylight, or take a torch in there with him, or as you suggest, use the light from outside the room. He sounds a bit feeble, and in need of resourcefulness training. It makes you wish people would learn a few basic skills (like changing light bulbs and how to reset trip switches) before leaving home to live in the big grown-up world, doesn't it?

              Plus, although its a good idea for LLs to supply manuals for appliances, there's no requirement to do so - especially if he bought the thing himself!
              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

              Comment


                #8
                Bathroom fans do not usually run off an independant circuit they are in most cases hooked up to the lighting circuit. Evidence suggest that this is the case here (ie lights still on!!)
                When fan fails it is normally the switch element of the pull cord. new basic fans are around £25 for a decent brand and a competant spark can change the entire unit withing 15 minutes therefore max 1 hour charge!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Solent Watcher View Post
                  Bathroom fans do not usually run off an independant circuit they are in most cases hooked up to the lighting circuit. Evidence suggest that this is the case here (ie lights still on!!)
                  When fan fails it is normally the switch element of the pull cord. new basic fans are around £25 for a decent brand and a competant spark can change the entire unit withing 15 minutes therefore max 1 hour charge!!
                  Yes - plus the three hour round trip to source a new fan on Bank Holiday Monday, charged @ £75 per hour! Electricians are no philanthropists.
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                  Comment


                    #10
                    While I can see your point Moreheadaches have you fully ensured that your T can not acess your consumer units? Are they sealed off? Has the T been given verbal and written instruction which he/she has signed for as having been served and read and understood and accepted the instructions that they are not to touch the consumer units? Do you have signed timed and dated copies of such documentaion?

                    If an incident occurs and you are asked about this in litigation it is very often the case that if it is not written down and recorded it will be taken that it did not happen.

                    Conversely, if there is an electrical problem in the property how can the T turn off the mains if they have no access to the consumer unit?

                    Regarding post 6: prohibitive cost is not a good enough reason to present to a court for not doing the right thing.

                    pm
                    Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      maxine - is the unit a combined light and fan in one unit? Or, is the fan a separate unit from the light fitting with a switch or a pull chord, and the fan comes on automatically with an overrun so that when the light is turned off the fan continues for some time afterwards? Or, does the fan have it's own pull chord or switch?

                      pm
                      Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by property mongrel View Post

                        Regarding post 6: prohibitive cost is not a good enough reason to present to a court for not doing the right thing.

                        pm
                        I agree with you, but I did not say it was! In context: the previous poster had said that an electrician could do the job in less than an hour, inferring incidentally that that this would be a reason to get said electrician out on a Bank Holiday. All I said (based on my experience of electricians, especially on Bank Holidays!) was that this was an unrealistic estimate.

                        It is still my opinion that the partial loss of light and use of extractor fan in a bathroom for a T who wll not even try resetting a trip switch or changing a light bulb first, does not constitute an emergency for which an electrician should be instantly summoned -always assuming you can get hold of one.

                        Can we please put paid to all this nonsense about not allowing a T to access a consumer unit to flick a switch if necessary? This is nannyism at its worst! Resetting a trip switch on a modern consumer unit is a tenantlike thing to do. We do not ban Ts from fitting a tap washer in case they flood the house and drown, or from boiling a kettle to deforst a condensate pipe in case they scald themselves.

                        A sense of proportion would seem to be indicated - that is, after all, what a judge would apply in the unlikely event of the T claiming his life was imperilled by being made to re-set a trip switch designed for just that purpose.

                        An electrically safe consumer unit, supported by valid, current certificate produced after inspection by a competent qualified electrician, should be enough to protect LL from any claim. If OP does not have such a certificate, then clearly her position is weakened in theory, although I suspect not in practice.
                        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Snowball Land!!!

                          There was no inference whatsoever that an electrician should come out on a Bank Holiday because it is only a one hour job (actually more like 15 minutes but chargeable for an hour!!). As for 3 hour round trip (chargeable??!!!) to get spare I will make no comment!! merely that it is a simple and straightforward task, which it is, and has nothing to do with the consumer unit as reportedly the same floor level lights are still on!!!!!! Think this thread is starting to gain its own energy for what is, in my view, a minor matter!! Perhaps the hangovers are still kicking in.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Moreheadaches View Post
                            We dont allow (or expect) tenants to go anywhere near the consumer unit. If an MCB/RCD trips, we investigate and re-set it.
                            [...]
                            We expect tenants to replace light bulbs. Although we will replace them if they require ladder useage free of charge (tenant buys bulb - we fit them)
                            But what happens if the tenant forgets to isolate the light before removing the dead bulb, and then touches the live terminals? After you have specifically instructed him to do this?

                            But conversely you won't let the tenant flick an MCB switch?? They can trip for all sorts of reasons, many of which are totally inoccuous: a blown lightbulb being the most common cause. If the problem is serious, the MCB can't be reset, simple.

                            Below is the end-user instruction manual for a consumer unit fitted just before Xmas for a newly tenanted property of mine (the tenants have been provided with a copy) and which clearly states they should do in the event of a trip. I would certainly expect my tenants to do this, as part of behaving in a 'tenant-like manner'...
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Solent Watcher View Post
                              There was no inference whatsoever that an electrician should come out on a Bank Holiday because it is only a one hour job (actually more like 15 minutes but chargeable for an hour!!). As for 3 hour round trip (chargeable??!!!) to get spare I will make no comment!!
                              You have clearly never called an electrician out for a minor job on New Year's Day! However simple or complex the job it would end up costing a large amount of money, when it is not necessary
                              Originally posted by Solent Watcher View Post
                              merely that it is a simple and straightforward task, which it is, and has nothing to do with the consumer unit as reportedly the same floor level lights are still on!!!!!!
                              T would still need to isolate the affected light before replacing the bulb, to be safe.
                              Originally posted by Solent Watcher View Post
                              Think this thread is starting to gain its own energy for what is, in my view, a minor matter!! Perhaps the hangovers are still kicking in.
                              Speak for yourself. I've had no alcohol at all for the last week!
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Reply to Whatever happened to the tidal wave of evictions?
                                by theartfullodger
                                Many many tenants leave when served s21 , more when court papers served etc etc. Any tidal wave/tsunami may become visible later than now, if at all.
                                21-05-2022, 12:04 PM
                              • Whatever happened to the tidal wave of evictions?
                                by jpkeates
                                The latest government figures for possession claims have been published, which cover January through March 2022.
                                That's post Covid restrictions and would probably include most of the last of the Covid backlog.

                                And there's no sign of the massive wave of evictions and resulting mass...
                                19-05-2022, 10:46 AM
                              • Reply to Ending contracts
                                by theartfullodger
                                Depends on what the agreement you have between you and agent or the terms and conditions they sent you when you started the relationship. Sadly can't read it from here.

                                See what it says, if you can't find anything ask agent to provide copy of such terms you agreed to.....and how/where...
                                21-05-2022, 12:02 PM
                              • Ending contracts
                                by Pineapple288
                                2 questions. I rent my BTL property through a letting agent. The current tenant has handed notice in. Am I right in saying I can now leave this letting agent?

                                Second question, the.reason I'm leaving the agent is because a very good friend of mine would like to rent he property. If she wants...
                                21-05-2022, 11:59 AM
                              • Reply to Noise from rented property
                                by zcacogp
                                Thanks for the help everyone. We've made (indirect) contact with the landlord who has been helpful, which is great. The council will be the next port of call if things don't sort themselves out.

                                Interestingly, the local university (Alma Mater of the students in question) seems to take...
                                21-05-2022, 10:50 AM
                              • Noise from rented property
                                by zcacogp
                                Hi,

                                I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway.

                                We live in a house whose garden backs onto other gardens. One of those houses is let to a group of students.

                                The students are given to making noise in their garden, particularly...
                                18-05-2022, 11:36 AM
                              • Reply to Checks foe a Newbie
                                by boletus
                                List here (I've not checked if it's accurate or up to date e.g EICR);

                                https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com...the-first-time
                                21-05-2022, 10:49 AM
                              • Checks foe a Newbie
                                by AVJ113
                                Hello good people. I am currently in the process of buying my first BTL house. There is already a tenant, so I don't need to find one.

                                Can any anyone point me to a check list of 'must do legally', and also 'highly advised', please? I 've done my research but there's nothing like hearing...
                                20-05-2022, 16:33 PM
                              • Reply to Checks foe a Newbie
                                by AVJ113
                                Is there no one here who is prepared to present a list of a landlord's obligations (and highly advisable actions) upon a new tenancy, based on there own experience?

                                As I said I am already buying a house and there is a tenant in situ....
                                21-05-2022, 10:44 AM
                              • Reply to Checks foe a Newbie
                                by Another Fine Mess
                                Fortunately in the Uk (Scotland may be different) any house purchase is "Subject to Contract" which means that at any time you can change your mind. so if you have second thoughts you can back out.
                                I would also say that even if you have signed a contract, and before completion, you...
                                21-05-2022, 10:24 AM
                              Working...
                              X