SPT notice period and how to end it before it starts

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    SPT notice period and how to end it before it starts

    Hi all

    We have a slightly complex situation with our tenancy, I would be very grateful for any help anyone can give with a couple of questions.

    We started a 12 month AST on 15th January 2010, which will therefore be coming to an end on 14th January 2011. We pay our rent monthly, however the first payment on 15th Jan was for only 17 days worth of rent, this meant that from then on we paid the full monthly amount on the 1st of every month. The house is in England (in case it's relevant).

    We have recently bought a house and so will be leaving the rental soon, however this is likely to be after 14th Jan 2011.

    Assuming the tenancy rolls onto an SPT we would have to give 1 month's notice to leave the property, however is this 1 month before the 31st of the month or 1 month before the 14th of the month?
    I would normally assume it to be 1 month before the 14th of the month (as the SPT will be starting on the 15th January), but does the fact that the way they structured our rental payments changed it so that the rent was always paid on the 1st of the month mean that the notice should expire on the 31st?

    In either case we would probably want to end the tenancy on the 31st January or 14th February (depending on the answer to the above question), so my 2nd question is can we give the required notice to end the SPT even though it won't have started when we give the notice?

    Many thanks for any advice you can give

    #2
    You can give your month notice on the day the SPT starts, which will be on 15 Jan 2011.
    I suggest you send the notice by recorded delivery, with proof of posting, well in advance of that date. Or hand deliver it with a signature as proof.
    I am not 100% sure but I don't think the pro-rata payment for the first rental payment makes any difference to the start date of your SPT not does it change the start date of the AST.

    If you are in contact with the landlord or letting agent by email, this should also be acceptable.

    Comment


      #3
      That's right. Everything is done according to the actual date the tenancy started. The rental date was done that way to coincide with your salary I presume so that is just for your convenience.
      I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

      Comment


        #4
        II cannot think that what the 'drunkenjedi' is saying is correct.

        First, the fixed term of your tenancy runs from 15th January 2010 to 14th January 2011. You could just walk away on 14th January giving no notice at all (although it would be courteous to do so). If you cannot give notice for a tenancy which does not yet exist then logically there is no way you can end it before 14th March, as far as I can see.

        The reason: if drunken is correct and a T cannot give notice in a SPT before it begins then the expiry date for notice given on 15th January in this case would be 14th March, not 14th February, since the notice must effectively be served on the last day of a rental period. In OP's case, the rental periods run from 15th-14th of each month. I am happy to be corrected by someone with more legal knowledge.

        Could you not come to a written agreement with your LL that you could serve notice on or before 14th January (now, even?) to leave on 14th February? The whole point of notice is that it gives the other side a reasonable amount of time before the tenancy is ended. Your LL may of course prefer to stick to what is prescribed if that would give him even more time, in your case.
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DrunkenJedi View Post
          You can give your month notice on the day the SPT starts, which will be on 15 Jan 2011.
          I suggest you send the notice by recorded delivery, with proof of posting, well in advance of that date.
          No, because T cannot give notice to end a tenancy which hasn't yet arisen. The earliest OP can serve notice to end the SPT is 15th January 2011.

          @firsttimebuyer10 - the periods of the periodic tenancy start the day after the fixed terms ends, and the period lengths are based on the frequency with which rent is payable, not on the rent payment date. So, in this case, the periods will run 15th - 14th of the month. Strictly speaking, your notice should expire on the last day of a tenancy period - 14th of the month - as well as giving LL at least 1 month's notice, so it is doubtful whether your notice could expire on 14th Feb if served on 15th Jan.

          However, one of our learned members, lawcruncher, has suggested that it might be possible for T's notice to quit to expire on the first day of the next period, i.e. 15th February 2011. This remains uncertain.

          As MTG suggests, speak to the LL and try to come to an arrangement. The LL may agree to accept notice which doesn't conform to the letter of the law, which is perfectly fine if both of you are happy with it (but get something in writing from the LL saying he accepts your notice).

          Comment


            #6
            Many thanks all for the incredibly useful information.

            We are on good terms with the LL, so will try to agree a leaving date prior to the 14th March that is mutually acceptable. Is an email enough from the LL that they accept our notice, or should we be aiming to get it in signed written form?

            Thanks

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by westminster View Post
              No, because T cannot give notice to end a tenancy which hasn't yet arisen. The earliest OP can serve notice to end the SPT is 15th January 2011.
              So sending a notice in the post is the same as serving it? What of the period while the notice is in the post?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by westminster View Post
                No, because T cannot give notice to end a tenancy which hasn't yet arisen. The earliest OP can serve notice to end the SPT is 15th January 2011.
                That's interesting. Presumably this implies that notice cannot be given to end an SPT after just one month, then. This seems strange...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                  That's interesting. Presumably this implies that notice cannot be given to end an SPT after just one month, then. This seems strange...
                  I agree it does seem to go against the spirit of the legislation, which allows the T to give just one month's notice in every other situation. (Here is is requiring two months minus one day, in practice). However, I suppose it could be argued that the T had the chance to end the tenancy at the end of the fixed term and that in allowing the tenancy to become periodic the assumption is that T will not normally in practice want then to end it after only one month. It does seem illogical though.
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by DrunkenJedi View Post
                    So sending a notice in the post is the same as serving it? What of the period while the notice is in the post?
                    Yes, you can serve a notice by post, although it is wise to keep proof of postage in case T disputes it. Use first class post (not registered/recorded delivery)and keep proof of postage.

                    However this is not the point. You seem to be under the impression that notice served on the first day of the SPT can expire on the last day of the same rental period. It would appear it cannot.
                    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by DrunkenJedi View Post
                      So sending a notice in the post is the same as serving it? What of the period while the notice is in the post?
                      You're missing the point. I said that T cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before the periodic tenancy actually starts. If OP followed your instructions, and posted the NTQ 'well in advance' of 15th January, and the notice arrived before 15th January, the notice would have no effect.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by firsttimebuyer10 View Post
                        We are on good terms with the LL, so will try to agree a leaving date prior to the 14th March that is mutually acceptable. Is an email enough from the LL that they accept our notice, or should we be aiming to get it in signed written form?
                        An email is enough.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by westminster View Post
                          You're missing the point. I said that T cannot serve notice to end a periodic tenancy before the periodic tenancy actually starts. If OP followed your instructions, and posted the NTQ 'well in advance' of 15th January, and the notice arrived before 15th January, the notice would have no effect.
                          OK, I realise that "well in advance" is not correct but I really intended to say enough time to take account of the post, rather than weeks or something like that which my statement implied.

                          So, if the LL received the notice 1 day before (14 January), with the notice starting the next day, the notice is deemed to be invalid?
                          How is the tenant to know exactly when the letter containing the notice will be delivered by the postman?
                          If the LL is away a few days before before and after the day that the notice was delivered, how will the LL know when the notice was actually delivered?

                          I know we have email now but not everyone has email and also, what did people do before email?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DrunkenJedi View Post
                            OK, I realise that "well in advance" is not correct but I really intended to say enough time to take account of the post, rather than weeks or something like that which my statement implied.

                            So, if the LL received the notice 1 day before (14 January), with the notice starting the next day, the notice is deemed to be invalid?
                            How is the tenant to know exactly when the letter containing the notice will be delivered by the postman?
                            If the LL is away a few days before before and after the day that the notice was delivered, how will the LL know when the notice was actually delivered?

                            I know we have email now but not everyone has email and also, what did people do before email?
                            You are still missing the point. There is no point in posting the notice early since it cannot be served until the first day of the SPT tenancy at the earliest and even then the one-month notice period will not start until Feb 14 and end on March 14. So there is little point in doing what you say in this case.

                            Normally (but obviously not in OP's case), if notice is posted, it is after the SPT has begun and as long as it arrives before the last day of the relevant rental period, it is valid.

                            Before they had email people wrote letters to each other. If service ever had to be proven in court, an email - which can be traced to someone's ISP address if necessary - would suffice 'on balance of probability'.
                            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                            Comment

                            Latest Activity

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X