AST Tenant withholding rent

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    #16
    Originally posted by MTJL View Post

    I am the Landlord.

    I had a previous issue with a Lodger who, by default, became a T when I moved out of the property without changing their agreement. I then had to transfer her deposit to a DPS. Now, another T (on a Flat Share Agreement, not an AST) is demanding that her deposit is transferred to a DPS and is withholding rent until it has been done.

    The withholding of rent was done without prior notice. It was only after the rent was 4 days late and I contacted the T, that I became aware of all this.

    Of course, I could transfer her deposit to DPS (even though in this instance I am not obliged to do so), but I'm not happy with being held to randsom over it by the T.
    What do you mean by 'Flat Share Agreement, not an AST'? Do you mean that you are a resident landlord?

    Either way, this is not a valid reason for withholding rent.

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      #17
      Originally posted by westminster View Post
      What do you mean by 'Flat Share Agreement, not an AST'? Do you mean that you are a resident landlord?
      Long story short.. Early last year, I had a group of tenants in one of my properties under and AST. They trashed the place and stopped paying rent. Thanks to our wonderful and drawn out legal system, it took months before I could evict the tenants. Overall, I lost thousands. I then decided that I no longer wanted anyone in any of my properties under an AST, and so re-let on an individual room basis under a "Flat Share Agreement". This agreement clearly states that it is NOT an AST.

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        #18
        Originally posted by MTJL View Post
        I then decided that I no longer wanted anyone in any of my properties under an AST, and so re-let on an individual room basis under a "Flat Share Agreement". This agreement clearly states that it is NOT an AST.
        So what type of tenancy do you think it is? A 'flat share agreement' isn't a legal term for a type of tenancy, and changing the name of a tenancy agreement doesn't mean it isn't an AST.

        Reading through your previous posts doesn't persuade me that you understand differences in tenancy status, and it could well be that this tenant is an AST tenant and you would therefore be obliged to protect their deposit.

        Also, you have entitled this thread "AST tenant withholding rent". If you don't think the tenant has an AST, why did you call it that?

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          #19
          Originally posted by westminster View Post
          So what type of tenancy do you think it is? A 'flat share agreement' isn't a legal term for a type of tenancy, and changing the name of a tenancy agreement doesn't mean it isn't an AST.
          Referring back to my earlier post (#17)... For almost 8 years, I had rented out a property of mine as a whole property under an AST. This worked fine for me until I got my fingers very badly burnt with the last tenants. When these tenants finally vacated the property and I was ready to re-let, I enquired as to whether there was a type of agreement/occupation that I could use which was not an AST (so I could avoid being fleeced again by rogue tenants). A friend told me about a "Flat Share", where you rented the rooms individually on a month-by-month basis and the Sharers had little more rights than a Lodger. This sounded like the sort of thing I wanted, even though I potentially would be changing occupants more frequently. I found a lot of agreements for this on the internet and subsequently purchased one to use.

          If I have been misinformed and the agreements I am using are invalid, I need to rectify this ASAP. Ultimately, if I allow someone to live in my property (fully furnished and I pay all the bills) and that person stops paying rent and/or breaks any part of his/her agreement, I want to be able to evict that person in a timely manner and protect my property/investment.

          Originally posted by westminster View Post
          Also, you have entitled this thread "AST tenant withholding rent". If you don't think the tenant has an AST, why did you call it that?
          Despite my current situation, I wanted to know what grounds an AST tenant would have to withhold rent. I titled this threat accordingly

          Comment


            #20
            As I understand it..


            Originally posted by MTJL View Post
            ...............Ultimately, if I allow someone to live in my property (fully furnished and I pay all the bills) and that person stops paying rent and/or breaks any part of his/her agreement, I want to be able to evict that person in a timely manner and protect my property/investment.

            Unless you are a resident landlord then, as I understand it, regardless of what your "agreement" says, they have an AST and all the advantages & disadvantages that brings (one of which, since HA1988 S21 is certainty of eviction for no reason, but after following due-process-of law).

            The timeley manner is -
            - issue S21
            - Wait until it expires
            - Apply for possession order
            - Gain possession order
            - engage bailifss
            - Bailiffs carry out T if need be
            ( Much longer if you get the paperwork wrong).

            In all cases the S21 notice may not expire before 6 months after the start of the tenancy.

            If you want a faster "timely manner" then I fear you must move to some other country.


            Cheers!

            Artful
            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

            Comment


              #21
              I agree with Artful - a 'flat-share' would only apply if YOU were actually sharing the flat with your'lodgers', in which case they would be excluded occupiers. Your tenants - for that is what they are - have an AST as defined in section 1 of the 1988 Housing Act. It is that bit of law that defines their status as AST tenants, not the wording of the agreement.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                I agree with Artful - a 'flat-share' would only apply if YOU were actually sharing the flat with your'lodgers', in which case they would be excluded occupiers. Your tenants - for that is what they are - have an AST as defined in section 1 of the 1988 Housing Act. It is that bit of law that defines their status as AST tenants, not the wording of the agreement.
                My thanks to you and Artful. It would appear that I have been misinformed and undertook inadequate research on this particular matter.

                My question would then be: How do estate agents get away with Short Lets, which are for less than 6 months?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by MTJL View Post
                  My question would then be: How do estate agents get away with Short Lets, which are for less than 6 months?
                  Because there is no minimum term for an AST.

                  However, an AST tenant cannot be evicted via s.21 procedure sooner than 6 months after the (original) tenancy commenced.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by MTJL View Post
                    My question would then be: How do estate agents get away with Short Lets, which are for less than 6 months?
                    Either "Holiday Lets" which may actually be ASTs and the agent is being dishonest: Some holiday lets (eg "1 week in lake district" is a holiday let). I don't recommend using a holiday let documentation for what is an AST. It would look embarrassing in court & in the local paper

                    Or, more likely, agent tells tenant what their rights are, tenant blindly accepts what they are told: Sadly agents & landlords have been using that approach successfully for years & years....
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment

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