Confused on notice needed!

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    Confused on notice needed!

    Hi

    I have a tenant who signed an Assured Short Tenancy agreement when they moved into a property 17th June 2010. On the agreement I stated this is for a term of six months ending on the 16th December 2010. Also on the agreement it states next to the end date Ending on (but continuing by virtue of satuate until notice is given).

    All straight forward so far...

    I contact the tenant in November to ask if she would like to sign another 6 or 12 months tenancy, which is said no to as she was waiting for a council house and did not want to tie herself to another 6 months and was happy for the contract to go month to month so she can then only give me a months notice (in line with her agreement start date 17th of the month. I was happy with that and just thought I would sit tight and wait for the notice letter once she got a council house.

    A week later 19th December she handing in her notice saying she has got the council house and would be leaving on the 16th December. I advised her I would need to give a months’ notice in line with her agreement which would then be the 16th January as she has missed Nov- Dec cut off by a few days. This might sound harsh I want to follow correct procedures as my local housing advice office had told me before that notice needs to be on the day the tenancy ends day before the start date as the tenant could refuse to move out and has ever right by law.

    When I advised her this she told me know she does not need to give a months’ notice as a Assured short hold tenancy agreement has a fixed term of 6 months and she can give no notice as long as she moves out on the last day of the fixed term. I was shocked as I thought that all AST where for min of 6 months and a months’ notice would always need to be given. She could phone any time on the last day of the fixed term to say she was moving out. Speaking to my solicitor and housing advice that is correct and my AST is correct and legal based on a fixed term (even the mention of term in the correct is enough to make it a fixed term) If I did not want to put an end date on the agreement that would automatically make it a month to month or week to week correct meaning a tenant could always give one months notice. (This has not stability as they would live in the house for 1 day and then give a months’ notice)

    Can anyone shed any more light on this or had this problem or advise me how i can have agreement that means a tenant can not move out for 6 months?

    #2
    Originally posted by SB82 View Post
    A week later 19th December she handing in her notice
    Do you mean 19th November?

    Originally posted by SB82 View Post
    When I advised her this she told me know she does not need to give a months’ notice as a Assured short hold tenancy agreement has a fixed term of 6 months...
    Can anyone shed any more light on this or had this problem or advise me how i can have agreement that means a tenant can not move out for 6 months?
    Well, you already answered...

    Comment


      #3
      But the literal expiration is on the 16th December therefore no notice is required? You cannot tack on extra months before the current ast has run its course. A statuatory periodic only begins when the tenant has not vacated after the literal expiration of the term ie the 17th december. By the 16th December your tenant will have stayed there for 6 months as per the agreed contract... I'm a little confused by your post if im honest.

      If you want more security... go for a 12 month AST... Fairly straightforward, obviously they cannot give notice to leave until the 12 months are up...
      [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry yes the 19th November

        Comment


          #5
          Whether you put an end date or not is irrelevant, your tenant did not have to inform you of her intention to leave, as there is no statutory requirement to do so within the fixed term.
          Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Sorry for confusing you had a day of it and my little confused with it all!

            I think where i was wrong is that the tenant does not have to give a month notice on the first six months of the AST as it is fixed. Where i was mentioning the extra months was because i thought she always had to give a months notice even to end the contract which she did as far as i could see late where she should have given me notice on the 16th November to end 16th december in line with her contract. The reason where i mentioned the extra months is because she missed the nov cut off by 3 days she could only give notice from 16th december to end 16th Januaury 2010. Which i found out would only count if she had stayed in until the 17th december as the fixed term would have ended.

            If you could advise what i should do to stop his happening again and i am worried a tenant could call me on the last day of the AST and just leave.

            Comment


              #7
              On a normal AST that is for a min six months does a tenant not by law need to give notice unless it runs over by a day or more?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by SB82 View Post

                If you could advise what i should do to stop his happening again and i am worried a tenant could call me on the last day of the AST and just leave.
                Not a lot you can do, apart from what the footballers do, and sort out a new contract well before the old one ends.
                Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                Comment


                  #9
                  That is what i thought and would have done if she had said no she wanted the contract to roll on month to month. Hosuing advice said that if she signed a new agreement starting 17th decemeber for another 6 months she could still leave on the fixed date of the first agreement?
                  Am i correct in adding term and end date on the AST?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thats why any new agreement should always superseed the old one - ie if you sign a new agreement on the 17th November run it for 7 months and surrender the old one by operation of law - new tenancy is running, jobs a goodun! Whilst periodic is preferential to most tenants this often is not for landlords. Call their bluff, serve S21 expiring at the end of the fixed term so that you can negotiate a new lease... Moving house is, after all, a really pain!
                    [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you for your advice. As i see why you said issue a section 21 notice can that look like bullying them into signing another 6 month agreement?
                      I am happy for contracts to run month to month after the six months in most case as if the tenant gets inot rent arrears i can server them 2 months notice which i can not do within a fixed term?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        To surrender the old one do i need have this written into my agreements i use? If a tenant 1st AST runs out 16th december they agree to resign a new agreement on the 1st december can i date the new agreement from the 1st or does it have to be 17th december?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          As I understand, the new one will supercede the old.
                          Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by thesaint View Post
                            As I understand, the new one will superSede the old.
                            Yes, as long as the old one's T is exactly the same as the new one's T.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by SB82 View Post
                              Thank you for your advice. As i see why you said issue a section 21 notice can that look like bullying them into signing another 6 month agreement?
                              I am happy for contracts to run month to month after the six months in most case as if the tenant gets inot rent arrears i can server them 2 months notice which i can not do within a fixed term?
                              Its worth noting that whilst it can reduce the time to some extent in reality your 2months notice will still take significantly longer to enforce.
                              [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

                              Comment

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