Section 21 query -correct date?

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    Section 21 query -correct date?

    Hi, I am a tenant.

    We have lived in the property for a couple of years (6 months fixed AST then periodic). In September this year the landlord went abroad, which is fine, and the agent has gone from being tenant finder to rent collector (I gather this is to comply with tax related issues).

    So, we signed a new 6 month AST for 1st Sept this year (which was fine by us). If relevant, this is an "Extension to an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement". This t the fixed period runs until 28th Feb 2011.

    Yesterday (post marked 15th Nov) we received a Sect 21 in the post. What should the "Date of this notice" be? Is it the date on which is was served, or the start date of the contract?

    Many thanks

    #2
    The important date on this notice will be the date relating to possession. From the details you give, the notice will probably require possession after the 28th of February. This is the earliest date possible.
    You have to be given at least two months notice, so a notice sent in November clearly complies with this condition.

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      #3
      Johnjw is right, there is no need for an 'issue date' or 'service date', the only date required is the expiry date. I presume your notice is a s21(1)(b), not a s21(4)(a). If so, the expiry date can be any date after 28th February 2011. This is NOT a notice to quit - you are under NO obligation to leave on that date. All an s21 does is give the landlord permission to commence a possession claim after its expiry date.
      http://www.tenancyanswers.ucoz.com/i...g_evicted/0-21

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks both for your replies.

        Here is some additional information: the Section 21version we have just received seems to be the paperwork that the agents normally give out very early in the tenancy, e.g. on day 1 of the fixed period - it has space for us to time and date the notice, and the paperwork is dated 1st September.

        I am aware of the implications of us putting the time on the paperwork, to indicate that the notice is served correctly (not before the AST) if we were signing the Sect 21 at the same time as the contract.

        However, I understood from looking into it that we don't need to sign anything now; the notice has simply been served to us in the post. The cover letter is not dated.

        Is the agent being sloppy in giving us this version of the paperwork 10 weeks into the contract, which requires a timed signature and is dated 1st September, and asking us to return it in 14 days?

        I am more concerned about their general copy-and-paste approach to paperwork, based on previous ineptitude...

        Comment


          #5
          You don't have to sign notices, so don't. And you certainly don't have to spend time and money to provide LA with a proof that you received the notice, so don't. If they wanted such a proof they should have sent the notice through registered mail.

          Comment


            #6
            It is of no disadvantage to you if the s.21 has been incorrectly served; a valid notice entitles the LL to apply for possession the day after the notice expires, nothing more.

            If you mean that the s.21 notice is dated as served on 1st September (?), it should not affect its validity if the agent/LL have evidence of the actual date of service (e.g. proof of posting, witness to hand delivery), as a s.21 notice does not have to give a 'start' date (nor does it have to be signed by T). It must only give T no less than two months' notice and not expire before the end of the fixed term, i.e. the earliest it can expire is "after 28th February 2011".

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for your further replies. They confirmed what i thought.
              [One of my concerns (as an aside) is that I would be pretty unhappy if I were the landlord paying for this service, since the agent has been so inept with preparing paperwork on several occasions... ]
              However I am always keen to know what our actual position is, to be prepared for the inevitable "oh don't worry about that too much" or complete misinformation from the agents.

              Comment


                #8
                Is this not part of the trend of some agents automatically issuing an S21 at the same time as they issue a new AST? Suspect the LL does not even know it has been issued!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Solent Watcher View Post
                  Is this not part of the trend of some agents automatically issuing an S21 at the same time as they issue a new AST? Suspect the LL does not even know it has been issued!!
                  I suspect this is true, since the agency has done this routinely before. That's why my first thought was that they meant to serve this at the start of the tenancy and forgot.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by westminster View Post
                    It must only give T no less than two months' notice and not expire before the end of the fixed term, i.e. the earliest it can expire is "after 28th February 2011".
                    Hmm. Interesting... the wording on the notice, under the subheading "Date of expiry of the notice", says "Date: February 28th 2011". Does that make it invalid?

                    At this stage I'm just curious really, rather than concerned.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by all_change View Post
                      Hmm. Interesting... the wording on the notice, under the subheading "Date of expiry of the notice", says "Date: February 28th 2011". Does that make it invalid?
                      Yes. As 28 February (whole day) is part of the fixed term, T cannot be made to go until after that whole day.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        brief update...

                        Hi all, thanks for replying before.

                        Just a quick update for interest...

                        The agent has tried to chase us by email to return the S21 that they sent in the post... with the reason being "so they can complete our file".
                        I made a quick phone call to confirm (to them) that our signature was not needed on a notice etc... when I pushed a bit and asked why they wanted it to be signed and returned, given that there was no requirement to do so, they admitted that it was "company policy"; a "belt and braces approach".

                        Made me smile really... they clearly wanted us to give them a way of proving that they had served a Section 21 notice.

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