Eviction

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  • Eviction

    Hi,
    In 1998 I rented a property with an Assured Tenancy Agreement and in 2004 it was purchased and my son in law became the landlord. There was no official notification and no agreement. I paid the rent to him.

    In 2008 my ex son in law now was awarded £20K from the divorce to be paid by Sept.30th. 2010 or my house would have to be sold. The CCJ stated that SHE was responsible for the mortgage. I sent her the rent each month as requested. She sent it to him as the mortgage payments were coming out of his bank account.

    The last four months she has not done this due to personal circumstances.

    I have now received a notice of eviction Sections 8,10 and 11 which end 8/11 and Section 21 which ends December 30th. She is also named on both although she is in Australia.

    I offered to up the monthly rent to gradually pay off the arrears which I don't owe, she can't afford to. This was refused. I have proof of payments and proof of offer and refusal.

    Where do I go from here?



    Nancy

  • #2
    sorry but I am confused - you are referring to "she" - who is "she"? What relevance does "she" have to anything when you state the house was purchased and your son in law became your landlord?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dc61 View Post
      sorry but I am confused - you are referring to "she" - who is "she"? What relevance does "she" have to anything when you state the house was purchased and your son in law became your landlord?
      The context suggests that 'she' is OP's daughter.
      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dc61
        oh, that makes it a bit clearer then. thanks.
        If I thought you were genuinely interested, instead of just keen to rack up posts, I would be pleased to have helped.
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

        Comment


        • #5
          If (ex) son in law was the landlord, why did you send the rent to 'her'? Did you receive any instruction to do so, and if so, from whom?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
            If (ex) son in law was the landlord, why did you send the rent to 'her'? Did you receive any instruction to do so, and if so, from whom?
            I agree it's confusing, but I suspect the son-in-law was perhaps no longer the LL after his divorce, just paid the mortgage on the property on behalf of his ex-wife who was the LL?

            Until OP clarifies, I'm not sure how much we can help.
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dc61 View Post
              sorry but I am confused - you are referring to "she" - who is "she"? What relevance does "she" have to anything when you state the house was purchased and your son in law became your landlord?
              Oops! ........daughter


              Nancy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                If (ex) son in law was the landlord, why did you send the rent to 'her'? Did you receive any instruction to do so, and if so, from whom?
                If my memory serves correctly this is what we assumed was the right thing to do as the court had made her responsible. He was in agreement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                  I agree it's confusing, but I suspect the son-in-law was perhaps no longer the LL after his divorce, just paid the mortgage on the property on behalf of his ex-wife who was the LL?

                  Until OP clarifies, I'm not sure how much we can help.
                  Apologies. I've lived with this for so long I forget that no one else has! SIL was the landlord but the CCJ had made my daughter responsible for the mortgage.


                  Nancy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Okay, so SIL is the landlord, but you haven't been paying rent to him, you have decided to pay money to your daughter instead of paying rent to the landlord. Up until now you have been lucky that D has been paying SIL for you. Now, your landlod hasn't had the rent, so you need to sue D for the money you have paid to her for rent. Until you have official information from SIL, he remains the landlord.

                    Think of it this way - if you have a loan with Barclays, you can't just start paying HSBC.

                    As MTG says, it may be that a divorce settlement has changed things - but until someone officially tells you (as tenant) officially, then nothing changes.

                    If we assume that D is your landlord, the next question is, have you been provided with an address in England or Wales for the service of documents to D? The answer to that is obviously no - because your paperwork says that SIL is landlord. No rent is payable until such an address is provided. Once it is provided, then all unpaid rent becomes immediately due, but it does mean that the section 8 notice you have received is invalid because no rent was due at the time of service.

                    I also suspect that a section 21 notice served by D, before SIL has advised you that she is LL, would be invalid - but I'd wait for a more knowledgable member to comment. Again - HSBC can't reposess a property on a Barclays mortgage - same principle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                      Okay, so SIL is the landlord, but you haven't been paying rent to him, you have decided to pay money to your daughter instead of paying rent to the landlord.

                      No I didn't decide. The decision was based on the CCJ making D responsible for the mortgage. Up until now you have been lucky that D has been paying SIL for you. Now, your landlod hasn't had the rent, so you need to sue D for the money you have paid to her for rent.

                      D in Australia Until you have official information from SIL, he remains the landlord.

                      Think of it this way - if you have a loan with Barclays, you can't just start paying HSBC.

                      As MTG says, it may be that a divorce settlement has changed things - but until someone officially tells you (as tenant) officially, then nothing changes.

                      If we assume that D is your landlord, the next question is, have you been provided with an address in England or Wales for the service of documents to D? The answer to that is obviously no - because your paperwork says that SIL is landlord. No rent is payable until such an address is provided. Once it is provided, then all unpaid rent becomes immediately due, but it does mean that the section 8 notice you have received is invalid because no rent was due at the time of service.

                      D NOT landlord. SIL on mortgage. No documents from anyone.
                      I also suspect that a section 21 notice served by D, before SIL has advised you that she is LL, would be invalid - but I'd wait for a more knowledgable member to comment. Again - HSBC can't reposess a property on a Barclays mortgage - same principle.
                      I think I'm more confused now than when I started . I don't know how else to say it. SIL on mortgage. CCJ made D responsible for mortgage. Rent went to her. Bank account statements prove that. She hasn't passed on the last three months.

                      Receive two notices of eviction one dated 22nd September second dated 19th October.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How can a CCJ against one person make someone else legally liable for a mortgage?
                        The mortgagee (lender) would certainly not be bound, anyway!
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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                        • #13
                          The mortgage is irrelevant. Who owns the property? Is it still D & SIL on the deeds?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Apologies for a long post, but I wanted to be clear on this situation.

                            In 2004 your Son In Law, SIL, purchased the property. You paid him rent, whether or not there was formal agreement this creates a tenancy with you as Tenant and him as Landlord. He has all the responsibilities of a LL. Was the property solely in his name, was your daughter’s name mentioned on the property deeds as owner?

                            So your son in law owns the property that you live in as of 2004 and he is your landlord.

                            2008, your daughter and son in law divorce. As part of the divorce settlement Daughter gets house but eX-Son-In-Law (XSIL) is awarded £20k in lieu, to be paid within a period of time and in any case by 20 September 2010 or the house would have to be sold to make the payment? Until the £20k payment is made he is still a joint owner.

                            By CCJ, do you actually mean the divorce settlement paperwork? Did the Court say that she will keep the house but she must buy him out, pay him £20k by September 2010? She was also ordered to keep up the mortgage payments. Instead of her taking the mortgage on alone or a new mortgage and buying XSIL out, daughter and XSIL kept the existing mortgage going.

                            Until the house is sold they are both still owners, his share is £20k worth. He is still your LL I believe, and you should pay him rent. Is the mortgage in joint names?

                            Since 2008, the divorce date, you have not paid your LL any rent. Instead you chose to pay "rent" money to your daughter so that she can afford to pay the mortgage payments via XSIL. But she is not making the mortgage payments as per the court order for whatever reason and now does XSIL want the house sold, and you out asap?

                            I am not sure if by effectively accepting "rent" from you, your daughter created a tenancy with you? Or how this will affect the Tenancy with your existing XSIL LL?

                            Nancy - Are you basically asking who has the right to evict you and what process must they use?

                            If XSIL is still your LL you have not paid HIM rent for 2 years.

                            pm
                            Last edited by property mongrel; 22-10-2010, 11:45 AM. Reason: to add sentence on unpaid rent.
                            Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by property mongrel View Post
                              Apologies for a long post, but I wanted to be clear on this situation.

                              In 2004 your Son In Law, SIL, purchased the property. You paid him rent, whether or not there was formal agreement this creates a tenancy with you as Tenant and him as Landlord. He has all the responsibilities of a LL. Was the property solely in his name, was your daughter’s name mentioned on the property deeds as owner?

                              No. SIL was sole owner

                              So your son in law owns the property that you live in as of 2004 and he is your landlord. Yes

                              2008, your daughter and son in law divorce. As part of the divorce settlement Daughter gets house but eX-Son-In-Law (XSIL) is awarded £20k in lieu, to be paid within a period of time and in any case by 20 September 2010 or the house would have to be sold to make the payment? Until the £20k payment is made he is still a joint owner.

                              No. D and SL divorce 2004. D sells family home, meets someone else, marries and moves. SL agrees £12K but refuses to sign papers for money, thinking he's holding up the divorce. More court action, D uses money for solicitors etc.

                              By CCJ, do you actually mean the divorce settlement paperwork? Did the Court say that she will keep the house but she must buy him out, pay him £20k by September 2010? She was also ordered to keep up the mortgage payments. Instead of her taking the mortgage on alone or a new mortgage and buying XSIL out, daughter and XSIL kept the existing mortgage going.

                              No. 2008 more court action by XSIL. Awarded £20K. Still landlord to whom I am paying rent. Court states D is responsible for mortgage and her name must be put on the Land Registry. Just found his solicitors didn't do this. As D is responsible for mortgage, rent paid to her. Funds transferred to XSIL's bank account. We thought this was the right thing to do at the time.

                              2010 D intends paying £20K then company goes bellylup, no money.I'm still paying rent to her. Money very tight for D and she uses July, August and September's to buy essentials. I didn't know. No contact by XSIL complaining to me.

                              New SIL gets job in Australia. More court action re grandsons...... all go to Australia. Intends paying but money still very tight.

                              2010 Receive notice of eviction under Sections 8,10,11 and 21

                              Receive another notice of eviction as above with D's name added.


                              He wants me out whatever.

                              Until the house is sold they are both still owners, his share is £20k worth. He is still your LL I believe, and you should pay him rent. Is the mortgage in joint names? Since 2008, the divorce date, you have not paid your LL any rent. Instead you chose to pay "rent" money to your daughter so that she can afford to pay the mortgage payments via XSIL. But she is not making the mortgage payments as per the court order for whatever reason and now does XSIL want the house sold, and you out asap?

                              I am not sure if by effectively accepting "rent" from you, your daughter created a tenancy with you? Or how this will affect the Tenancy with your existing XSIL LL?

                              Nancy - Are you basically asking who has the right to evict you and what process must they use? NO
                              If XSIL is still your LL you have not paid HIM rent for 2 years.

                              pm
                              Tried to answer your PM but it wouldn't send.


                              Nancy

                              Comment

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