Leaving early

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    Leaving early

    If a landlord has served a Section 21 Notice (NOTICE OF POSSESSION of a Dwelling House) on a tenant, what is to stop the tenant moving out sooner and thus not paying the rent for the following one/two months?

    #2
    It depends. Is the fixed term still running when T leaves?
    1. T leaves before the term expires: T is liable for rent up to & inc. expiry.
    2. T leaves on the day that it expires: T has no further liability.
    3. T leaves after it expires (giving no Notice to L): T is liable until L's Notice period ends.
    4. T leaves after it expires (giving valid Notice to Quit to L): T is liable until T's Notice period ends, if earlier than when L's does.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      The tenant is on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, which commenced on 4th March 2008. The agreement has continued since that date (i.e rolling tenancy agreement). The Section 21 Notice was served around 30th September. The date for the tenant to move out is 3rd December (i.e. one day before rent is due).

      I'm aware the tenant is liable until 3rd December so rent/bills would have to be paid. But how would the landlord make sure this happens, especially if the landlord lives across the world so it wouldn't be cheap for them to come back and sort it.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DevilDamo View Post
        But how would the landlord make sure this happens, especially if the landlord lives across the world so it wouldn't be cheap for them to come back and sort it.
        The tenant has no obligation to leave on the expiry date of the s21 notice.

        Have you provided the tenant with an address in England/Wales for the service of documents - like their notice?

        Comment


          #5
          You're assuming I'm the landlord. Not once in this thread have I indicated which side I'm representing

          So... back to the original question... if the tenant leaves before the S21 date and refuses to pay the last months rent (as well as bills), what can the landlord do about it?

          As for the English/Welsh address... No. The only address that has been used is the one overseas.

          Comment


            #6
            So if you're not L, are you T? If not, what?
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


              #7
              As this is a public forum, I do not want to give too much information away.

              However, the answer to your question... I am one of them.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DevilDamo View Post
                As this is a public forum, I do not want to give too much information away.

                However, the answer to your question... I am one of them.
                We could advise you more usefully if you stopped playing silly beggars and explained what your interest is in the case. This kind of query is pretty common and the chances of your LL/T identifying you from your posts here is remote.

                However, if the T left owing rent and the LL lives on the other side of the world and has not made an address in England or Wales available for service of notices, then the answer to your question about what the LL can in reality do about it is 'not a lot'.

                In fact, the T is not even obliged to pay rent unless and until such an address was provided.

                I suppose the LL could instruct a solicitor to chase the defaulting T for the rent arrears, but it may well be a case of throwing good money after bad.

                Assuming the utility bills are in the T's name, they are the utility providers' concern and not the LL's.
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DevilDamo View Post
                  You're assuming I'm the landlord. Not once in this thread have I indicated which side I'm representing
                  On a site called Landlordzone, that's a pretty fair assumption unless the poster indicates otherwise. FWIW, tenants get equally good advice here.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by DevilDamo View Post
                    The tenant is on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy, which commenced on 4th March 2008. The agreement has continued since that date (i.e rolling tenancy agreement). The Section 21 Notice was served around 30th September. The date for the tenant to move out is 3rd December (i.e. one day before rent is due).
                    Originally posted by DevilDamo View Post
                    So... back to the original question... if the tenant leaves before the S21 date and refuses to pay the last months rent (as well as bills), what can the landlord do about it?

                    As for the English/Welsh address... No. The only address that has been used is the one overseas.
                    But does the tenancy contract contain an address for serving notices in England/Wales?

                    A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit; it does not end the tenancy at notice expiry, nor does it oblige the T to move out at notice expiry. It merely entitles the LL to apply to the court for possession after the notice expires.

                    If T gives LL notice to quit before 4th November (the notice to expire 3rd December), and moves out, T's notice will end the tenancy on 3rd December - if no notice is given to LL, T will most likely remain liable for rent beyond that date.

                    The LL has six years in which to pursue a claim against T for any unpaid rent.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                      In fact, the T is not even obliged to pay rent unless and until such an address was provided.

                      .
                      That does not mean that the tenant does not owe the money for the period of having no address for the landlord. As soon as the landlord complies with the requirement all the rent money becomes due and should be paid.
                      I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Basically don't be coy. If you are the T and you've been served a valid S21 and have found elsewhere then discuss this with your LL. Most are happy that they will not have to go to court to get a possession order and will happily pro-rata the rent for you. Others however demand that one month's notice to tie in with the rental period and it should be paid (as much as it can hurt, but they are entitled to it legally). This of course is only appropriate if you are outside of the fixed-term.

                        It's a change I would like to see in housing law (that if LL gives 2 month's notice that if T finds somewhere quick than any stray days/weeks be paid but I understand that would be a complicated change to make). I was forced to pay a police officer LL (who had promised a long-term let) a full month's rent for 3 days when I found elsewhere to move to but had just missed my return 1 month's notice to tenancy days and paid for 2 properties for same month). I could have completely naffed up their lives, I was paying a week early throughout my entire tenancy to tie in with their mortgage payment time and their S21 wasn't even correct. But hey ho I moved on quietly but it did hurt to pay £525 for 3 days
                        I'm a good tenant with great landlords
                        I'm also a living, breathing, fully cooked female.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi,

                          Do you have a deposit that could cover any lost rent ?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I wonder if it's a moral practice to give advice to a tenant who tries to outwit his Landlord and has enough cheek to come to LL forum for help. Unfortunately, it's a common practice. I see potential scammers coming on ebay forums for advice, and soon afterwards their victims turn up. Also, for advice, if any.
                            A very appropriate nickname, Devil(plus something else) I suppose, if you need another advice of a similar sort inthe future, you'll just reregister under a different name.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Irina View Post
                              I wonder if it's a moral practice to give advice to a tenant who tries to outwit his Landlord and has enough cheek to come to LL forum for help.
                              ?? Sadly there are enough posts on LLZ where the T has been spun some tissue of whatever and many respondents have provided correct, honest, fair-minded advice to tenants in such circumstances - in the same way such correct, honest, fair-minded advice has been provided to Landlords..

                              Is there something wrong with providing the right guidance to those asking for it?? Surely the old British bedrock traditions of decency, tolerance and fair-play aren't a bad place to start, eh??

                              LLZ forums were, I thought, known and recommended for taking a a fair and balanced viewpoint, usually... (Yes I'm sure I've failed that test in some of my utterances... guilty, hang-head-in-shame...)


                              Best regards to all, including those who disagree with me..


                              Artful

                              PS Which morality did you think is not being adhered to??
                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                              Comment

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