Has L messed-up Notice and can I therefore remain as T?

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    Has L messed-up Notice and can I therefore remain as T?

    my 6 month AST cam to an end some time ago and I have been running on a periodic tenancy for some years. I am happy where I am and have a good relationship with my LL. Unfortunately my LL was concerened about some issues in the property that I highighted to her and has had a proffessional look at the house. The LL has been advised that it is uneconomical and unrealistic to try to bring the house "up to todays standard". I have therefore been given a letter stating that with reluctance she is giving me 2 months notice to quit. I do not beleive that the notice to quit was valid as there was no reference to section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 and have approached my LL with this. She has agreed that it looks like the notice is invalid but explains that she still can not afford to do the work but would consider looking into some measures to control rather than resolve the damp problem. I really want to stay in my property which has been my home for nearly 10 years. My LL seems happy to agree the notice is invalid and will put this in writing - can we just carry on with a periodic tenancy while I look for alternative accommodation in the longer term ?

    #2
    Originally posted by quandry View Post
    I do not beleive that the notice to quit was valid as there was no reference to section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 and have approached my LL with this.


    I am not saying it's valid or not, but it does not need to reference Sec 21...

    Originally posted by quandry View Post
    can we just carry on with a periodic tenancy while I look for alternative accommodation in the longer term ?
    Why not?
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      thanks for the response but I am still confused. You say the notice does not have to refer to section 21 but all through these posts there is repeated reference to this Act and the need to be on the notice to quit to be valid on a periodic tenancy.
      Are you sayng basically that my LL can withdraw her notice and act like it hasnt happened? she is worried that this could make her life more complicated. While she is quite happy for me to stay if I am happy to do so she does not want to enter into a new agreement and wants to protect her rights to give me 2 months notice ( as under current agreement)

      My choices are to accept notice and move out or sign a new agreement ?

      Comment


        #4
        Is it just the damp which is an issue?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by quandry View Post
          thanks for the response but I am still confused. You say the notice does not have to refer to section 21 but all through these posts there is repeated reference to this Act and the need to be on the notice to quit to be valid on a periodic tenancy.

          ?
          What is being said is that the notice does not have to refer to it's being a S21 providing all the correct information that would be found in a S21 is in it.

          So it could be just a hand written note. If it gives the right dates etc. then it's valid.

          Your landlady is free to ignore it if she wishes, if she writes a note that you may stay in your periodic tenancy then she is effectively canceling it and would have to give you a further S21 if she wants possession in the future. If she does not give you a proof that she has withdrawn it then the S21 will be valid into the distant future so she could start possession proceedings with no further notice.
          I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

          Comment


            #6
            Bit confused; if its uneconomical what is she going to do? It doesnt add up.

            If its true then why not see if you can buy it if its that bad?

            Notice does not need to be in a standard form simply comply with section 21 a and be in writing. Anything other than the widely available forms is up to the courts discretion that it complies and valid.

            All she need do is serve a new notice.

            Try and negotiate.
            Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

            Comment


              #7
              HI,

              Yes basically. Other than the LL being worried that having served a notice ( which there is no clarity as to its validity) if she allows me to stay with no new agreement being signed I may at a later date claim that I ahve more rihts to stay and she can not get me to leave - obviuously I would not do this but I understand her concerns. In a nutshell I want to stay and she wants me to stay but doesnt want a new agreement!

              Comment


                #8
                She might also be concerned that you will claim disrepair in the future. That could cost her a lot.
                I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

                Comment


                  #9
                  yes you are right these are her worries. I live in an area where rental properties are few and far between - I have a 3 bedroom detached home with a large garden and there is absoultely NOTHING else in the area. I have been on the Housing list for years ! What I want is time to keep looking now knowing the more urgent nature of relocating. What LL wants is the same -- she doesnt want to make me homeless and if the building were up to scratch would keep me!

                  To query a previous reply - negotiation is fine but i need some facts. Can LL withdraw notice in writing stating that she is happy for me to stay under the terms of the exiting periodic tenancy and would this hold up in court if challenged ?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by quandry View Post
                    Can LL withdraw notice in writing stating that she is happy for me to stay under the terms of the exiting periodic tenancy and would this hold up in court if challenged ?
                    I believe it would, but the easiest thing to do is to do a new contract.
                    It can be for a month if you want, and then let it run month to month like your current tenancy.
                    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think that your landlord is relying on your relationship to prevent you proceding to claim disrepair, as well as keeping her options open with keeping the tenancy periodic.

                      Dependant on the full extent and costing of the issues your landlord may be entitled to a home improvement grant, some councils run schemes based on affordability, if you really don't want to move then this could be the best option for her to look at.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A county court judge has advised me that he would accept a letter addressed and served on a tenant giving the required two months notice as fulfilling the requirement of section 21. He also added that he could not guarantee that his colleagues would be like minded. This means that the notice is probably valid if a) your deposit has been protected and b) you have been given at least two months notice ending "after" a rent day. (this is the day in the month when your rent is to be paid according your AST.

                        Although you are happy to stay in the current conditions as is your landlady happy for you to remain, she will be aware that it is your right to advise the local authority about the disrepair. Should you do this and the local authority agree, they could compel your landlady to effect the repairs or do them themselves and use their considerable powers to extract the cost of doing this from your landlady. Although I doubt that. under the circumstances, you would want to do this your landlady will have this at the back of her mind which is one reason that she feels obliged to evict you.

                        P.P.
                        Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by quandry View Post
                          Are you sayng basically that my LL can withdraw her notice and act like it hasnt happened? she is worried that this could make her life more complicated. While she is quite happy for me to stay if I am happy to do so she does not want to enter into a new agreement and wants to protect her rights to give me 2 months notice ( as under current agreement)

                          My choices are to accept notice and move out or sign a new agreement ?
                          Let's assume her notice was valid.

                          A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit. It does not end the tenancy, nor does it oblige the tenant to leave. It has no effect other than entitling the landlord to apply for possession after the notice expires; it's completely up to the landlord whether she does or doesn't apply.

                          Therefore, your periodic tenancy continues unaffected. As this is what both of you want, you are both worrying about nothing.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by P.Pilcher View Post
                            This means that the notice is probably valid if a) your deposit has been protected and b) you have been given at least two months notice ending "after" a rent day. (this is the day in the month when your rent is to be paid according your AST.
                            Tenancy periods begin on the day after the fixed term expired and are based on the frequency of rent payments (e.g. monthly, weekly) not on the date rent is due.

                            E.g. A term commencing 14th January, expiring 13th July 2010, rent payable monthly in advance on the 1st of the month; the tenancy periods would be 14th - 13th of the month as from 14th July 2010, and the s.21 notice would have to expire "after 13th [month]".

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks all for interesting comments.

                              Note comments from last post : I see that a section 21 notice is not a notice to quit and ll possibly will not persue now but still have a notice which some judges would see as valid. Just spoke to LL now and to answer previous q's really just wants to allow me more time to look as now only 4 weeks to leaving date if current notice valid. LL basically saying she wont evict unless she has to is just worried about me living there and her taking rent so I have a new tenancy after written end date.

                              I note you say that we both want me to stay so what are we worried about but she is an elderly lady and wants assurity ( other than my good word!) that she is not opening herself up to hassle later!

                              Comment

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