eviction questions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    eviction questions

    We bought our house next door, the intention being to knock through to make room as our family grows. The house was currently being rented out to a working single mother, with her youngest daughter. She asked to stay and we needed more money so we adopted the existing AST. We asked her to sign a new agreement with my name on it instead of the old landlords and also a reduced rent because we were taking half of the garden (all agreed verbally) - the start date of the AST remained the same, 28th November 2008.
    She is now not paying any rent.
    We served S21 notice on the 22nd July for expiry on 28th September (rent is monthly on 28th)
    Once 2 months rent was owed we served S8 notice on 13th August for expiry on 28th August.
    Last time we spoke she said she would move out on 2nd September, but she's still there!
    Our questions are, and we would really welcome your advice:
    1.) Is it OK to adopt an existing AST. Our solicitor when we bought the house said is was OK.
    2.) When I drew up the revised contract I just put my name as landlord. But realised afterwards I should also have put my wife's name as we jointly own the house. On the S21 and S8 notices we both signed. Will this cause a problem with the judge?
    3.) Should I follow S8 route now or wait until 28sept and follow S21 route? She says she has no money and we have not seen her going to work for a while. Our priority is to get her out, the back rent would be a bonus.

    #2
    What do you mean that the start date of the AST stayed the same?

    Is she claiming housing benefit?
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by thesaint View Post
      What do you mean that the start date of the AST stayed the same?

      Is she claiming housing benefit?
      We did not draw up a new AST, but just changed the landlord's name and the rent to be paid.
      T told me she receives £50/week housing benefit.

      Comment


        #4
        1. I would not be comfortable with this - the existing AST was fine, you just needed to serve certain documents on the tenant to confirm the change of ownership.
        2. I don't think this is an issue
        3. Well...
        1. When did the tenants initial tenancy (with the previous owners) begin?
        2. When did her latest tenancy agreement come into effect?
        3. Did the latest agreement have any 'fixed term'?
        4. Did the tenant pay a deposit to you or the former owners?
        5. If so, is this deposit in a scheme? When was it protected?
        6. What date did you serve the s8 & s21 notices? Do you have proof of service?
        7. Was the s21 notice a s21(1)(b) or a s21(4)(a)?
        8. What was the expiry date (exact words) on the s21 & s8?
        9. Has the tenant ever been given a document to tell her where she should serve legal documents?
        10. How much is the monthly rent
        11. How much rent is currently unpaid?
        And following on from 'thesaints' comment, have you asked the council to pay the housing benefit direct?

        Comment


          #5
          Just to add to the questions asked by Snorkerz,

          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
          As soon as you completed, did you or your solicitor serve on T:
          a. V's Letter of Authority (directing that all rent now be paid to you);
          b. Notice under s.3 of LTA 1985 (your name as new L); and
          c. Notice under s.48 of LTA 1987 (your address in England & Wales at which T can serve any Notices on you).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
            Just to add to the questions asked by Snorkerz,
            Thanks Mrs Mug - those were the docs I mentioned in answer 1 - I just couldn't find the relevant post at the time

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
              1. When did the tenants initial tenancy (with the previous owners) begin?
              2. When did her latest tenancy agreement come into effect?
              3. Did the latest agreement have any 'fixed term'?
              4. Did the tenant pay a deposit to you or the former owners?
              5. If so, is this deposit in a scheme? When was it protected?
              6. What date did you serve the s8 & s21 notices? Do you have proof of service?
              7. Was the s21 notice a s21(1)(b) or a s21(4)(a)?
              8. What was the expiry date (exact words) on the s21 & s8?
              9. Has the tenant ever been given a document to tell her where she should serve legal documents?
              10. How much is the monthly rent
              11. How much rent is currently unpaid?
              And following on from 'thesaints' comment, have you asked the council to pay the housing benefit direct?
              1. 28th November 2008
              2. 18th December 2009
              3. The fixed term was kept the same: "
              THE TERM
              A term of six calendar months
              From the Twenty-eighth day of November two thousand and eight To the Twenty-seventh day of May two thousand and nine."
              4. £500 deposit was paid to the former owners. I understand that at least some of this was held back to cover unpaid rent. We have never received any deposit.
              5. Not applicable as we never received deposit.
              6. S8 served on 13th August. S21 served on 22nd July. In both cases we put the notice through the door. We know from talking to her that these were received.
              7. s21(4)(a)
              8. S21: 28-Sep-2010
              S8: 28th August 2010
              9. No.
              10. £550
              11. As the requirement is a month in advance it will be £1800 which would pay up until 27-sept.

              I haven't yet asked the council to pay the housing benefit, but I have started looking on Wiltshire council's website to try to figure out how to do this.

              Comment


                #8
                The problem you got yourself into is that the T maybe can agrue the situation both ways. And less you got things in writing you can't prove anything and it doesn't matter what she says now, she can chnage her mind.

                1) If it suits them, for a new agreement(AST) was created she will claim that the deposit should be re-protected and that she can't be evicted by S21 because of that or that it still within 6 months of that agreement.

                2) If it suits them, for it not to be a new agreement, they will claim that a S3/S48 should have been issued, which S3 could be a large penalty for the LL and use that to get stay or not pay the rent, and that till a S48 was issued the rent wasn't due.

                3) If it a new verbal agreement, I think the rent isn't due until the end of the period, which I think effects, when a S8 can be issued.

                Again all of this your lawyer should have advised you on and sorted out. I would first check with them. Maybe there should be a trade mark or something for lawyers who speciallise in L&T law.

                But I think you to either get specialist advice and/or get a surrender from her.
                Last edited by mjbfire; 06-09-2010, 11:23 AM. Reason: add due to previous response
                Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
                  Just to add to the questions asked by Snorkerz,
                  Oh dear! No I don't think so, but I will dig out the paperwork to double check. But the modified tenancy agreement does specify that rent should now be paid to us, and it named me the new L, and our address.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by UnwittingLandlord View Post
                    4. £500 deposit was paid to the former owners. I understand that at least some of this was held back to cover unpaid rent. We have never received any deposit.
                    5. Not applicable as we never received deposit.
                    Wrong. You're the LL now, so technically you are holding the deposit (even though you failed to get it from the vendor). The s.21 is invalid if the deposit isn't protected.

                    6. S8 served on 13th August. S21 served on 22nd July. In both cases we put the notice through the door. We know from talking to her that these were received.
                    Knowing is completely different to proving. You need evidence of service if you apply for possession.

                    7. s21(4)(a)
                    8. S21: 28-Sep-2010
                    If we treat this as a periodic tenancy following the original fixed term, the expiry date is wrong. Should have been "after 27th September 2010".

                    9. No.
                    No rent is due unless T is provided, in writing, with an address for serving notices. (As soon as the address is given, all arrears immediately become due).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
                      The problem you got yourself into is that the T maybe can agrue the situation both ways.
                      In spite of the cack-handed way this landlord changeover has been effected, I think the weight of evidence points to the tenancy continuing as periodic, with amendments to the original terms (e.g. reduced rent).

                      I can't see how it could be argued to be a renewal, when no new fixed term was agreed.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Well thanks for all your advice, wish it was better news. Could somebody please explain:
                        1.) Snorkerz stated that I must present T with a document to tell her where she should serve legal documents. Where should she serve legal documents to? My address, next door?
                        2.) S21 is invalid if the deposit is not paid into a protection scheme. But what about S8 - is that still valid?
                        3.) I have an undated handwritten letter from T stating that she understands we want her out by 28th August 2010, as stated in the S8 notice, and she will try her best to oblige. Can this be used as evidence that S8 was delivered?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by UnwittingLandlord View Post
                          2.) S21 is invalid if the deposit is not paid into a protection scheme. But what about S8 - is that still valid?
                          Yes- it's only s.21 that's affected.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by UnwittingLandlord View Post
                            Well thanks for all your advice, wish it was better news. Could somebody please explain:
                            1.) Snorkerz stated that I must present T with a document to tell her where she should serve legal documents. Where should she serve legal documents to? My address, next door?
                            2.) S21 is invalid if the deposit is not paid into a protection scheme. But what about S8 - is that still valid?
                            3.) I have an undated handwritten letter from T stating that she understands we want her out by 28th August 2010, as stated in the S8 notice, and she will try her best to oblige. Can this be used as evidence that S8 was delivered?
                            1. Yes
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            Yes- it's only s.21 that's affected.
                            2. No, because if you haven't complied with s47, no rent is due, and therefore she can not be 2 months unpaid on her rent.
                            3. It proves she got it, but doesn't prove you gave sufficient notice, so it has no real value.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by UnwittingLandlord View Post
                              3.) I have an undated handwritten letter from T stating that she understands we want her out by 28th August 2010, as stated in the S8 notice, and she will try her best to oblige.
                              You are both misunderstanding the nature of a s.8 (or s.21) notice. It is not a notice to quit, nor does it end the tenancy or oblige the tenant to leave; it merely informs the tenant that the landlord intends to apply for possession after the notice's expiry date.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Reply to Annex
                                by Dreamingofsea
                                I think you have said above you only want a lodger. In this case with the layout described it is highly unlikely to be ruled one in a court. I think it would therefore be very unwise to issue a lodger s agreement to a tenant because say down the line you want to evict the tenant and they go to seek...
                                18-09-2021, 17:14 PM
                              • Annex
                                by Lammas13
                                I have a self contained annex, it has kitchen, shower, toilet and own entrance from the alleyway.
                                when we bought our house it was already there. It was build with proper planning permission.
                                How do I go about renting it out. Washing machine would have to be shares in the main house. ...
                                15-09-2021, 17:44 PM
                              • Reply to Annex
                                by Dreamingofsea
                                As said above - This is a grey area. Probably It can not be a lodger s agreement just sharing a washing machine .It could be as Artful said common tenancy a non-assured short hold (little advantage since you have to evict through a court possession order and there is no accelerated process and you...
                                18-09-2021, 17:02 PM
                              • Reply to Typical lifetime of carpets
                                by royw
                                I use cheap carpet over good underlay everywhere.
                                18-09-2021, 16:57 PM
                              • Typical lifetime of carpets
                                by davett
                                I've done some searching and I see people asserting that the typical lifetime of a carpet is between 5 and 7 years. My question is, has this been established in court or is it just general knowledge?...
                                17-09-2021, 13:11 PM
                              • Reply to Tenant references are a joke.
                                by Moderator2
                                Hooper,

                                Just post a new thread, I’ll lock this one for now, then remove it when the new thread gets going.

                                Just to be clear (to everyone), here are some reasons why threads with names are edited or deleted.
                                1. It can (and has) lead to legal action against forum members and/or
                                ...
                                18-09-2021, 15:01 PM
                              • Tenant references are a joke.
                                by Hooper
                                I made two separate requests (one direct and one through a referencing company) for a landlord / agent reference for the same tenant at the same address.

                                I got two replies two days apart.

                                The first said they had always paid within 7 days of the payment date and that there had...
                                17-09-2021, 12:03 PM
                              • Reply to Typical lifetime of carpets
                                by jpkeates
                                The underlay is the key.
                                At home I use cheap carpet (because of pets) over good underlay.
                                18-09-2021, 14:45 PM
                              • Reply to Typical lifetime of carpets
                                by jpucng62
                                Let’s be honest, most tenants don’t look after carpets as well as a homeowner. There is no point putting a quality in a rental when you can’t be sure how it will be looked after - a burn or a coffee / wine stain will ruin a decent carpet as well as a cheap one. I go for a bleach cleanable, mid...
                                18-09-2021, 14:39 PM
                              • Reply to MCOL & PCOL
                                by jpkeates
                                There was nothing about a default in the post I was responding to.
                                The post said that there had been a hearing, so if there was a default, it would have to be some kind of procedural issue.
                                If you don't turn up to defend a claim, there has to have been some kind of error in notification...
                                18-09-2021, 13:40 PM
                              Working...
                              X