Serving s.8 Notice- unpaid rent plus breach of obligations

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    #16
    proving ground 8?

    Hi

    How is it possible for a LL to prove that rent has not been paid if no standing order by tenant has been set up, if you are seeking possession with a section 8 on grounds 8,10 and 11...is it for the tenant to prove that they HAVE paid?

    Many thanks

    Comment


      #17
      Yes, you make a statement of the rent due, if the tenant disagrees with it, it is up to them to provide proof that they have paid.

      Comment


        #18
        You provide to the court a schedule of unpaid rent either with the paper summons or using the online PCOL.

        You take an updated schedule showing rent due and rent unpaid to the court on the day of the hearing. If the tenant at any point disputes the amounts paid, then it is up to the tenant to prove he paid and in what manner. The judge wont accept assertions of " I paid £500 on 15th January 2010 in cash" without seeing proof by way of a receipt or bank paying in slip duly stamped.

        Very often, tenants who are way over the 2 months unpaid try and assert that the unpaid arrears are lower - the judge will often say something like "Do you agree you owe at least £1000 (where rent is say £500 per month)" If the answer is yes the judge wil then say "in that case, I am required to make a mandatory possession order on ground 8 of Schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988 as amended by housing act 1996 (or similar words)".

        If the answer is no, and the judge has not enough time to do a dissection of the matter there and then, the hearing will be adjourned for the tenant to bring proof that the landlord's schedule is incorrect.

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          #19
          pretty much what I thought...thanks for confirming that for me!!

          Comment


            #20
            Hi

            just to clarify the dates for section 8, if agreement started on 11th July and the tenant paid a month in advance and nothing since, would it be possible to serve the section 8 on 26th sept to expire on 10th Oct...or would i have to wait till 10th Oct (2 months unpaid) before it can be served...

            Also would there be a court hearing if so what happens if the tenant does not attend to defend his actions.

            Many thanks

            Comment


              #21
              If the rent is unpaid on the second 'rent due date' then that is 2 months due and unpaid, you should be able to issue the S8 the day after you don't get the rent.

              If the tenant then brings the money owed below the two month figure then ground 8 would fail, it has to have two months unpaid at the time of issue and when the court hearing takes place.
              I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

              Comment


                #22
                Thanks jta...

                so if agreement started on 11th July with 1 month in advance, no payment on 11th aug and no payment on 11th sept a section 8 can be issued as 2 months rent are due and unpaid...even though in theory it wouldn't be 2 months in arrears until 10th Oct...

                could you also put me in the picture with regards the tenant not attending to defend (if this was the case)....would the court be adjourned for another hearing or would it still go ahead in their absence...

                thanks for your response..

                Comment


                  #23
                  That's correct. Try to forget about arrears, the wording is unpaid, that's what it says in the grounds. It's due in advance so if it is unpaid then it's owing immediately.

                  If the tenant does not appear you get a walkover, providing the paperwork is in order.
                  I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

                  Comment


                    #24
                    thanks jta for the response again...

                    I issued a section 8 using ground 12 on 11th august due to damage and smoking of drugs in the property.

                    on the bottom of the section 8 it says that court proceedings will not begin until after 25th august 2010.

                    now that 2 months rent are unpaid aswell and im also using ground 8 can I add this to the original section 8 or will I have to serve it again...and wait the obligatory 14 days....sorry for so many silly questions I just want to get it right legally for both our sakes!

                    thanks

                    Comment


                      #25
                      earlier thread ...section 8 notice

                      Hi

                      I have asked this question in an earlier thread but had no response yet to this specific question, can anyone answer this one for me...please..

                      Agreement start date 11th july tenant paid 1 months rent in advance.

                      On Aug 11th I issued a section 8 notice to my tenant on grounds 12 and 13 he read the notice and duly signed it in agreeance that it had been served.

                      As of today he now has 2 months rent due and unpaid, can I add grounds 8,10 and 11 to the original section 8 as an addition or do i need to serve another section 8 and wait for it to expire?

                      Im ready to do a PCOL and need to get the dates right for the serving of the section 8 notice..

                      All help greatly appreciated

                      many thanks

                      Comment


                        #26
                        With 2 months rent in arrears, you now have one of the mandatory grounds for application for possession using section 8. This being the case, I would start again; the required two weeks notice before you apply to the Court, is a very short time in the context of a bad tenant problem.
                        You clearly decided very quickly that your tenant was not going to be satisfactory. I hope that you were paid a substantial deposit, in addition to the one month's rent paid in advance.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by mr2flyer View Post
                          Hi

                          I have asked this question in an earlier thread but had no response yet to this specific question, can anyone answer this one for me...please..

                          Agreement start date 11th july tenant paid 1 months rent in advance.

                          On Aug 11th I issued a section 8 notice to my tenant on grounds 12 and 13 he read the notice and duly signed it in agreeance that it had been served.

                          As of today he now has 2 months rent due and unpaid, can I add grounds 8,10 and 11 to the original section 8 as an addition or do i need to serve another section 8 and wait for it to expire?

                          Im ready to do a PCOL and need to get the dates right for the serving of the section 8 notice..

                          All help greatly appreciated

                          many thanks
                          Do have a little patience, I have to go to bed sometimes you know.

                          The answer to the question is, I don't know. You could ask the court if you can add them and they may let you. I think you will have to issue a new one though because ground 8 cannot be used until the 2 months are unpaid, and that's today isn't it? The court would not allow you to issue the S8 early on those grounds so why should they allow you to add it in.

                          MODERATOR please merge with OP's other thread.
                          I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

                          Comment


                            #28
                            My apologies jta and thanks for your responses...my frustration was not directed solely at yourself...

                            johnjw thanks for advice I think that is the best way although to think that im giving the scumbag an extra 2 weeks free living really gets my backup!!

                            Even the queen doesn't live for free..

                            Thanks again

                            Comment


                              #29
                              The way the professionals do things.

                              Although, I appreciate that this may be of little help in this instance, I thought the readers/contributors to this board may be interested in the following true story:
                              A firm of solicitors was managing a property either for clients or executors of a will. Tenants had failed to pay rent for several months. Solicitor decides to issue a section 21 notice, doesn't make a good job of serving it, thus the start of the 2 month notice period is difficult to determine. Tenant's deposit is not protected in an approved scheme. Understandably, judge isn't happy so calls a court hearing to explain why the application for the possession order will fail. A friend of mine (an advocate) gets the job of representing these solicitors at the court hearing and anticipates getting his ear burned.
                              Not a bit of it! On explaining to the judge the situation with the tenants manages to persuade said judge to consider an application under section 8 instead as the matter will have to come to court anyway so why can't we do it now? Judge agrees, inspects the paperwork with relation to the tenant's arrears, agrees that at the hearing the tenant was in a situation where two months rent was unpaid - and issued the requested possession order!

                              None of us amateurs would have got away with that one.

                              P.P.
                              Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                p pilcher

                                Although it wouldn't make much difference to my situation it does give us some hope that there are descent judges out there who are prepared to do the right thing and give judgement on what he believes to be the truth.

                                regards

                                Comment

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