Issuing s21 at outset, what about deposit

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    Issuing s21 at outset, what about deposit

    Last time I had did not take a deposit ( being nice to tenant / save hassle of scheme), later had problems, and need to issue s21 & lack of deposit caused issues: so this time want to do it altogether

    IE
    ON day of signing tenancy ( 2 days before it starts ) - will take deposit and protect it ASAP , hoping to also issue S21 issued at same point ( seems easier when all the paperwork is done/ explain if needed that puts LL & T in same poistion at end of 12m if no agreement to extend)

    BUT can I issue S21 given it will be a few days/ hours before I can pretect the deposit ?

    Cheers

    #2
    Originally posted by colinc57 View Post

    BUT can I issue S21 given it will be a few days/ hours before I can pretect the deposit ?

    Cheers
    You can, but it will be invalid.

    How did a lack of deposit cause issues?

    If you are intent on "evicting" your tenant as soon as you have given them a property to live in, protect the deposit, issue the prescribed information by posting it from a Post Office and get proof of posting.

    The next day issue the Sec 21 and post it from a Post Office and get proof of posting.
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      Are you taking this deposit in cash? If not do consider what might happen if cheque bounces and tenant is in residence.

      It is lways advisable to get the deposit as cleared funds before they sign AST.



      Freedom at the point of zero............

      Comment


        #4
        What I do, as previously said, make sure all funds are cleared before signing AST,
        The day T move in, do inventory, get them to sign it on all pages and photos.
        Arrange to come back a week later, to amend list incase they find anything else.
        At this visit, redo Inventory if required, give DPS details, and then serve S21.
        Some people say it's overkill, and not a nice welcome to their new house, but it not their house, it's yours, which you are renting for a fixed term.
        They can walk out after the fixed term, so why not level the playing field a bit.
        The other agruement is why not serve it at 4months, but as a T I be more worried then, than at the begining, but some ARLA agencies do this to encorage T to sign a new AST and earn more commission, when the T could leave it to become a SPT.
        Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

        Comment


          #5
          If I were a tenant, I would be a little peeved to receive a s.21 notice on day 1 of the tenancy.

          It may set the LL/T relationship off on the wrong footing.

          Comment


            #6
            so would I!!!!!
            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

            Comment


              #7
              Why would you be peeved, you signed up for a fixed term, and the LL is just saying unless you get a further agreement, that he may go to court after the fixed/agreed term has expired. Which will still take at least a month or 2.
              If you as a T want a longer fixed term, then agree with the LL for a longer fixed term.
              And why would a LL, get rid of a T, unless there is a problem. And if there is a problem, why shouldn't the LL use all legal means, T don't seem to have a problem using it, when it suits them.

              And I can't see why it would set the relationship off on the wrong footing, if explained why it should be done.

              The T doesn't have to go to court, and can leave on the day the fixed term expired, without notice and I am sure they don't care if the LL is preeved, and many do.

              If you let out your P, it's should be dealt like a business, and all angles should be covered, from Gas/Elec/EPC/Contracts/inspections, early S21 are just part of running things right. Bypassing these or doing anything informally with the T, leads yourself open to losing money or lawsuits, even if it's done to help the T out.
              Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

              Comment


                #8
                Either way, do not serve s.21(1)(b) Notice until after:
                a. the tenancy has begun; AND
                b. you have conclusively protected T's deposit (after giving T the prescribed information).
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
                  If you as a T want a longer fixed term, then agree with the LL for a longer fixed term...
                  If you let out your P, it's should be dealt like a business, and all angles should be covered, from Gas/Elec/EPC/Contracts/inspections, early S21 are just part of running things right. Bypassing these or doing anything informally with the T, leads yourself open to losing money or lawsuits, even if it's done to help the T out.
                  The world is rosy for some! LLs don't like to give 12 month tenancies ( I won't after a bad experience), so just "agreeing a longer fixed term" is not usually possible. I do not agree that an early s21 is part of runing things right. Good LLs (like my good self) do not "bypass" the legal stuff but do have some modicum of consideration for their tenants - it is not "helping them out" to understand how they would feel if you issue legal notices for your convenience and with no real need. If things are not right, issue the s21 at the appropriate time - 2 months before end of fixed term. A good LL can work out the dates and get it right and it is equally effective and does not leave a nasty taste.
                  If you don't see this then no amount of explaining it will enable you to. If you feel you are doing the right thing, that is your choice but I would not do it.
                  Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                  Comment


                    #10
                    How did a lack of deposit cause issues?
                    .. I did a favour and got shafted in terms of unrecovered arrears / damages... and having no deposit left me with the loss.

                    "evict"
                    No give notice of termination -on or after a certian day ... its be big difference

                    --

                    Looking at s21 at outset ( Hoping no need to use)
                    I would not have thought about it, until reading here ( so not sure I should get blasted )

                    To me seems a little unbalanced that tenant can leave at end of tenancy with no notice, whereas I would still have to give 2months.

                    If there was a problem, by not having previously issued notice, it adds months to the process of recovering my asset.


                    Cheers guys - yes I will wait until after got cleared depoist protected ( whether that be soon after or towards end of fixed period I'm not so sure now, as opportunity to do at same time as signing the paperwork is not practical given I was collecting deposit at same time )

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Islandgirl you don't get my point, you have agreed to a six month fixed term, thats the agreement, an early S21, just makes a six month agreement six month. And if as a LL, you wish to end it after six months it's your right to go to court and get your P back, as agreed.
                      Also you and your T, can agree for another six months, if you want, or go SPT. Again it an agreement between you and your T.
                      As a LL, I stick to my agreements, and I am a good LL, and if everybody sticks to what is agreed, it be a much simplier world to live in. But many T don't(I pay rent on time and look after the P).

                      I am not saying you are a bad LL, but maybe you are not covering all the angles.

                      But what makes a good LL, A person who just do things, if the law says you have to, or is a LL who runs it like a business(Max return, give good customer service and min risk) and give good customer serve or is it a LL who uses their morals to guide there actions.
                      I would say you have to be all three, but majority of LL who get into problems don't min risk, ie. don't do credit checks, refs, deposits, gas/elec checks and don't take out insurance.
                      The one time I let my morals override the other two, I got my ass kicked.
                      But it's upto you as a LL.
                      Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ColinC57: To avoid the possible tenant relationship issues mentioned, and to avoid any confusion over the protection of the deposit and issuing of prescribed information, why not diary 3 months ahead? By then, you will have an idea what your tenants are like and an s21(1)(b) issued then is no less effective than one issued on the firdt day.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          [QUOTE=thesaint;227817]

                          If you are intent on "evicting" your tenant as soon as you have given them a property to live in, protect the deposit, issue the prescribed information by posting it from a Post Office and get proof of posting.


                          Originally posted by colinc57 View Post

                          No give notice of termination -on or after a certian day ... its be big difference
                          The "big" difference is not so big to a tenant.

                          What is your objection to "giving notice of termination" to your tenant 2 months before the end of the fixed term?
                          Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Serving a s21 at the very beginning of the tenancy will never make for good LL-T relations. It is essentially telling the Tenant they are unwelcome before they have settled and as a result they will make plans to move. The rationale is that someone would not serve the notice if they did not intend to use it.

                            There is no advantage in serving it at the beginning of the tenancy. Just create a Google Calendar and set an email reminder shortly before two months before the end of the agreement. At that point you can evaluate whether you want to serve notice or renew the agreement, then act accordingly.

                            Comment

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