New to Forum and landlording!!

[gracygrey]

Thanks

Thank you all for taking the time to reply, there is certainly a fairly broad range of opinion.
Having spent time today doing research on the forum and also the net I think we might try to do it ourselves.
The property is in very good condition so cannot forsee any issues in that respect, the house is also only 12 doors away from our house so we go past it everyday.
Between this site, the directgov site and shelter etc.. hopefully we will start to get everything in place.
The Landlord Accreditation sounds a good idea as well as we intend to get another 3 properties under our belts.
Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge and fingers crossed it goes well.

[dominic]

Management fees can be money for old rope.

If your property is in great condition, with new or nearly new appliances and you've had all the services checked etc, you may not have any issues in the first year of a tenancy or let period and so the management fees paid to the agent will seem like money for nothing.

If your property is in poor shape, your agent will be working a lot for their fee and it will seem like money well spent, if the agent is a good one.

Management fees are, essentially, an insurance policy, in case something happens and when you, as the owner, do not wish to deal with whatever comes up.

Management also provides a barrier/cushion between the owner and the tenant, for owners who don't want to engage with tenants.

If you do decide you need the property to be managed, I would recommend using a dedicated property management co (use the directory on the LZ site) and not a letting agent.

This is for 2 reasons:

1. lettings agents usually charge upfront for the entire 6 or 12 months, so there is no incentive for them to do a good job, proper managing agents charge month by month, and usually by work done rather than commision;

2. letting agents are not managers, they are marketeers. I wouldn't get a brain surgeon to perform heart surgery, so why get a letting agent to perform management of your property?

[HairyLandlord]

If you do decide you need the property to be managed, I would recommend using a dedicated property management co (use the directory on the LZ site) and not a letting agent.

This is for 2 reasons:

1. lettings agents usually charge upfront for the entire 6 or 12 months, so there is no incentive for them to do a good job, proper managing agents charge month by month, and usually by work done rather than commision;

2. letting agents are not managers, they are marketeers. I wouldn't get a brain surgeon to perform heart surgery, so why get a letting agent to perform management of your property?

I think most management departments of letting agents charge on a monthly basis, as they take their fee from the rent that they collect, which is part of the management service.
I have not come across letting agents who charge management fees in advance by more than 1 month.

The lettings and management functions are carried out by different people in the company since the work done and type of people for those roles are completely different.
So your above analogy is not really appropriate or correct.

More correctly, lettings staff are more negotiators than marketeers.

[dominic]

I think most management departments of letting agents charge on a monthly basis, as they take their fee from the rent that they collect, which is part of the management service.
I have not come across letting agents who charge management fees in advance by more than 1 month.

The lettings and management functions are carried out by different people in the company since the work done and type of people for those roles are completely different.
So your above analogy is not really appropriate or correct.

More correctly, lettings staff are more negotiators than marketeers.

The opinions and experiences of many LLs differ (as evidenced by this forum alone) from your rather optimistic opinion of letting agents who offer managed services.

Why would I want a negotiator (a fancy word for salesman) when I can get a manager?

Why would I pay a manager a commission based on rent which has no bearing on the work done, when instead I can pay a proper management company for the actual hours incurred - in arrears?

The reason letting agents are so successful at making money from managed services is that they have a captive audience. And as everyone knows, captive audiences pay over the odds.

[HairyLandlord]

The opinions and experiences of many LLs differ (as evidenced by this forum alone) from your rather optimistic opinion of letting agents who offer managed services.

Why would I want a negotiator (a fancy word for salesman) when I can get a manager?

Why would I pay a manager a commission based on rent which has no bearing on the work done, when instead I can pay a proper management company for the actual hours incurred - in arrears?

The reason letting agents are so successful at making money from managed services is that they have a captive audience. And as everyone knows, captive audiences pay over the odds.

I doubt many people even know what you are talking about or who these property management companies are.

In all my years, I have never encountered the scenario that you have painted as "the norm" and these type of company (property management companies) are not geared around managing single private residential rented dwellings, which is the majority of what private landlords have.

I defy you to list any property management companies that private landlords have ever heard of, never mind used, and who offer a competitive management service to say, a private single property landlord who has 2-bed flat.

There are good property management staff in letting agencies as there are plonkers and good for nothing staff.
You don't know them all, so stop being a jerk about the whole industry.

[PaulF]

If you do decide you need the property to be managed, I would recommend using a dedicated property management co (use the directory on the LZ site) and not a letting agent.

This is for 2 reasons:

1. lettings agents usually charge upfront for the entire 6 or 12 months, so there is no incentive for them to do a good job, proper managing agents charge month by month, and usually by work done rather than commision; This will very much depend on where in the country you are located as it varies a lot!

2. letting agents are not managers, they are marketeers. I wouldn't get a brain surgeon to perform heart surgery, so why get a letting agent to perform management of your property? It is therefore surprising that so many landlords use letting agents and must by definition be satisfied otherwise they wouldn't employ them

If you use an agent make sure they are ARLA members or equivalent.

[Die Burgermeister]

You don't know them all, so stop being a jerk about the whole industry.

Not very plesant Hairy Landlord, I thought personal abuse wasnt allowed on this forum?

Paul, landlords may be perfectly happy with letting agents but I can tell you they are plenty of tennants who aren't, my last landlord used one and they were totally useless, never answerd the phone never mended anything.

[dominic]

I doubt many people even know what you are talking about or who these property management companies are.

You don't know them all, so stop being a jerk about the whole industry.

Please keep this professional, personal attacks are inappropriate on this forum.

The opinions I express are based on real life legal advice I have given landlords who have legitimate grievences about their letting agents, and then discovering (to my horror) appallingly one sided terms and conditions in the agency agreement (which would have more succintly expressed their legal effect by simply stating "bend over" on each page).

I am sure there are some good property managers out there working for letting agents, and I applaud them.

However, it is an inevitable truth of business practice that costs are cut and saved wherever possible. The way letting agents charge for management services often encourages poor service. [If you are not paid by the hour, why do an excellent job spending 2 hours on something when you can do a barely acceptable one spending 1 hour on it? Because a customer can change providers? Unlikely. As you say, they feel they have no alternative because they are unaware of non-letting agent providers, and fear the hassle.]

As I say, letting agents have a captive audience, like an airline trying to sell you over priced travel insurance as you go to pay for your flight, or airport bureau de changes charging you expensive commissions to change your money....

...perhaps I am slightly biased given my experiences, but that it is the purpose of a forum like this, others can provide a counterpoint to that.

[mind the gap]

...perhaps I am slightly biased given my experiences, but that it is the purpose of a forum like this, others can provide a counterpoint to that.

I do not think you are unduly biased. Your assessment of the relative merits of letting agents versus property management companies seems perfectly rational.