Letting Agreement wording- to shorten eviction process

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    The s.21 Notice is invalid unless served after the AST started.

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  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by midlandslandlord View Post

    At the signing ceremony my agent had the tenant sign a section 21 for the end of the first 6 months as a matter of their normal practice, which was a new one on me.
    I bet they did.

    Did it not occur to you to wonder why the agent was so keen to do this? The answer is very simple : so that he can make some more money out of you both in 6 months' time by getting you to sign a 'renewal' agreement - and pay him some ludicrously inflated fee for the privilege.

    Don't forget that the agent is supposed to do what you tell him, not the other way round. There is not some unalterable law of life which says that an agent must serve a s21 as soon as the tenant steps over the threshold. Tell him not to, if you prefer to stay on good terms with your tenant.

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  • midlandslandlord
    replied
    Wrapping Up this thread.

    The new tenant now signed up and happy so far :-).

    At the signing ceremony my agent had the tenant sign a section 21 for the end of the first 6 months as a matter of their normal practice, which was a new one on me.

    I have also had sight of the LRA rental agreement, which is impressively clear.

    Ferdinand

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  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
    Oh alright - I was writing it a bit more slowly than your reply. Gordon Benett, you leap to a ladys defence and she kicks you in the photocopied behind with it. Wimmin!
    Sorry Snorkerz

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  • Snorkerz
    replied
    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
    Er...I finked that's wot I said, innit?
    Oh alright - I was writing it a bit more slowly than your reply. Gordon Benett, you leap to a ladys defence and she kicks you in the photocopied behind with it. Wimmin!

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  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by Snorkerz
    But MTG said serve 2 months before the end of the fixed term...

    tenant moves in January 1 on 6 months AST
    landlord serves S21 May 1
    tenant goes bad with poor behaviour, LL wants them out
    Landlord applies to court for possession 2nd July
    Er...I finked that's wot I said, innit?

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  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by susanne View Post
    ""is that it makes absolutely no difference at all to the timescale in which you can regain possession""

    i have never understood this argument, that an early serving of S2 saves no time.... this is how i understand it. ..

    tenant moves in January 1 on 6 months AST
    landlord serves S21 Feb 1
    tenant goes bad with poor behaviour, LL wants them out
    Landlord applies to court for possession ` 2nd July



    tenant moved in Jan 1
    tenant goes bad
    LL serves S21 1st July
    LL applies to court for possession 2nd September

    QED landlord gains 2 months ......
    No, you can serve the section 21 two months before the end of the fixed term to expire at the end of the fixed term, then apply for a court order (if need be) the day after (still 2nd July, in the scenario you describe above).

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  • susanne
    replied
    ""is that it makes absolutely no difference at all to the timescale in which you can regain possession""

    i have never understood this argument, that an early serving of S2 saves no time.... this is how i understand it. ..

    tenant moves in January 1 on 6 months AST
    landlord serves S21 Feb 1
    tenant goes bad with poor behaviour, LL wants them out
    Landlord applies to court for possession ` 2nd July



    tenant moved in Jan 1
    tenant goes bad
    LL serves S21 1st July
    LL applies to court for possession 2nd September

    QED landlord gains 2 months ......

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by midlandslandlord View Post
    Mind the Gap, thanks for your reply.

    Thanks everyone else for the comments. I think I am referring to early (effectively at the start of the tenancy, immediately after the agreement is signed) service of a possession notice.

    Rgds

    ML
    You're welcome. Thank you for clarifying what you were on about.

    There are many threads on this forum about the advisability (or otherwise) of serving a section 21 Notice Requiring Possession as soon as a tenancy begins. The most powerful argument against so doing, in my view and that of many experienced LLs, is that it makes a useless 'Welcome to your new home' greeting to your new Ts, who often panic, misunderstand the notice and assume they are going to be 'evicted' even if they have done nothing wrong. Unsurprisingly they are often unconvinced by the LL's/agent's reassurance that it is 'perfectly normal and just routine'. A bit like going to the dentist for a check up and discovering he has booked you in to have all your teeth out 'jut in case they go bad later'.

    Another good reason not to serve a s21 at the outset (as opposed to two months before the end of the fixed term) is that it makes absolutely no difference at all to the timescale in which you can regain possession. Nor is it a guarantee that T will give up possession anyway. You may still have to apply for a court order and instruct bailiffs, whether you had served the s21 on Day 1, or last day of FT minus 2 months.

    Some agents (perhaps even some LLs) do serve s21s as a matter of course on Day 1 and if you ask them why, they shuffle embarrassedly in a Uriah Heep sort of way and claim that it is in case they 'forget' later on. Actually it is because it is in the agent's interest for the tenancy to be ended and another one entered into (because they can make more money from this).

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  • midlandslandlord
    replied
    Mind the Gap, thanks for your reply.

    Thanks everyone else for the comments. I think I am referring to early (effectively at the start of the tenancy, immediately after the agreement is signed) service of a possession notice.

    Rgds

    ML

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  • GillsMan
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
    "After", not "At". The AST must have at least started before L can serve T under s.21(1)(b).
    Ah yes, good point. Cheers for pointing that out! Maybe that isn't what the OP was talking about then.

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by GillsMan View Post
    Isn't he just talking about issuing a Section 21 at the beginning of a tenancy? At least, that is the impression I got from the OP.
    "After", not "At". The AST must have at least started before L can serve T under s.21(1)(b).

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  • GillsMan
    replied
    Isn't he just talking about issuing a Section 21 at the beginning of a tenancy? At least, that is the impression I got from the OP.

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  • westminster
    replied
    Originally posted by midlandslandlord View Post
    they had to go through the full "wait 2 months then gain possession via Court" process and I believe that this process can be shortened....

    In their case it was the usual story of a tenant who just stopped paying rent yet decided to stay. The loss suffered was 4 months worth of rent while a tenant was evicted.
    How to limit unpaid rent:
    • take six weeks' deposit
    • get a guarantor if the tenant's finances are in any way precarious
    • serve a s.8 notice the day after there are two months' rent owing and unpaid (if rent is payable monthly)
    • apply for possession the day after the 14 days' notice expires

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  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by midlandslandlord View Post
    >

    My own moral scruples say that it is OK to put a clause in a tenancy agreement which is in accordance with the law.

    Rgds

    ML
    OK, so the LL is not you, as you seemed to imply by the use of the first person in #1.

    Perhaps we can be clear about something else. I did not say it was not OK to put a legally acceptable clause into a tenancy agreement - simply that there is no legally acceptable clause which would help a LL get a tenant out of a property more quickly and conveniently than by the process already enshrined in statute. Research 'illegal eviction' and you will see that I was being entirely serious about that.

    The fact that you were even asking the question was what made me raise the question of your 'moral scruples' (or lack of them), although I was not being entirely serious about that.

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