Joint Tenancy - Relationship Ended

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    Joint Tenancy - Relationship Ended

    Hi, I was wondering if anyone can answer the questions below;

    I have had a tenants living at my property since Nov 08, the boyfriend at the start was the main tenant. The AST was 6 monthly only, so every 6 months I got him to do a new AST (same Terms and Cond). The last AST I had both of them sign it so it would a joint tenancy (reason being the boyfriend does not have a job and is not very honest but his girlfriend is employed) and had a forwarding address added to the AST in case they do a runner. The address was their parents homes.

    The AST end in May (31/5/2010), so it is periodic now and I have explained what that means to them. I also got them to sign a periodic statuary agreement reason being as I made a change to the AST, basically saying that when they give me their notice to move out, I can give them 2 hours notice and come round to do viewings, before it said 24 hours. The girlfriend signed this as the boyfriend was not around.

    I have always responded to repairs within hours when they have told me about them.

    The deposit is in the boyfriends name and is with DPS, I got him to sign acceptance form and gave him the DPS documents that you are supposed to provide, right at the start in Nov 08 of the agreement.

    My question is;

    1. The boyfriend has now left her with a unborn child and wants the deposit, all he said is his moved out and wants his money. He did this via text message and refused to speak to me on the phone. So I wrote to property address and his forwarding address, each time taking proof of postage from the post office. I explained to him that he cannot have the deposit as it is joint tenancy you are both liable for rent and you cannot just up and go you have to give me notice, just because its periodic does not mean you can do a runner. He said he was not having it and taking legal action against me can he do this?

    2. I knew then that his girlfriend would not pay the rent and her excuse is she cannot afford it as she is single and is pregnant. Basically she skipped the 1st months rent and is looking to hold on as long as possible, her main case is she is pregnant and I cannot just kick her out. I explained in writing that no rent means eviction and court action. But it fell on death ears.

    So I have made a claim to the DPS for the deposit, which the boyfriend disputes his excuses range from not repairing (he has not proof of), the money is his, he does not live their anymore and so on. Does he have any grounds to have the deposit returned to him, considering its a joint AST?

    And how soon can or can I even serve notice to the both of them for missing rent, can I do both s8 and s21?

    Yours help is greatly appreciated.

    #2
    So who is T: bf (as person whose deposit you protected) or gf (as you bizarrely tried to grant a contractual AST to her alone: it may be invalid if bf/gf are still tenants under the previous one)?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mop121 View Post
      The last AST I had both of them sign it so it would a joint tenancy (reason being the boyfriend does not have a job and is not very honest but his girlfriend is employed) and had a forwarding address added to the AST in case they do a runner. The address was their parents homes.

      The AST end in May (31/5/2010), so it is periodic now and I have explained what that means to them. I also got them to sign a periodic statuary agreement reason being as I made a change to the AST, basically saying that when they give me their notice to move out, I can give them 2 hours notice and come round to do viewings, before it said 24 hours. The girlfriend signed this as the boyfriend was not around.
      And what do these underlined bits mean? Either they both signed or only gf signed. Get your story straight, please.
      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

      Comment


        #4
        ended?

        I had them sign a new 6 month AST last year Nov 09, had both of them sign the AST. So they are both legally responsible.

        The deposit is in the bf name.

        I got the gf to sign the following as I changed one clause "FORMS PRESCRIBED FOR THE PURPOSES OF PART I OF THE
        HOUSING ACT 1988 FORM No. 1 Housing Act 1988 section 6(2), Notice proposing different terms for a Statutory Periodic Tenancy"

        Hope this helps?

        Comment


          #5
          But one only of two joint tenants cannot bind the other.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            ended?

            so how do I get her out? Can I issue a s8 and s21 as I have had no rent?

            Comment


              #7
              We cannot tell, as we do not have full information on a public forum. Both s.8 and s.21 could apply, if the circumstances justify, but you'll need accuracy in contents and address (sole name or joint names) if you want to be successful in seeking possession of the property.

              Proper documentation in advance might have avoided this pig's ear of a tenancy mess.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                ended?

                sorry just to be clear in reference to the comment "proper documentation" are you referring to AST?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mop121 View Post
                  sorry just to be clear in reference to the comment "proper documentation" are you referring to AST?
                  Partly, yes- but also:
                  a. to ensure that the prior tenancy properly ended before (or at the same time as) the next one began; and
                  b. to overcome the problem that gf's sole signature on s.6(2) Notice would not suffice for a joint-names AST.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ended?

                    Ah ok understood.

                    The last tenancy ended Sep 09, and I forgot to get to do a new one. So I got them to sign a new AST in Nov 09, making it a one month gap between the last one and the latest one.

                    The 6(2) I gather is now invalid, so I gather it carries on as a periodic agreement.

                    And I will Probably have to forgo the deposit.

                    Looks like I am back to square one, serve a s8 and s21 on grounds of rent arrears.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      No, again. Section 21 has nothing to do with 'rent arrears'; nor, literally, does s.8 in this case (as it deals with 'unpaid rent'- not the same!)
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ended?

                        So what would I serve as I have had no rent for 2 months? Confused

                        Comment


                          #13
                          A section 8 Notice on grounds of unpaid rent: see post #8 on http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=28889
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            ended?

                            excellent thank you.

                            Comment

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