Help with PCOL please! Minor on AST

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Help with PCOL please! Minor on AST

    Hello,

    I am a new Landlord and am encountering a nonpaying tenant. I have served a S8 professionally in the name of the 2 tenants a father and son.

    Thing is son has just turned 18 and he is on the AST. Do u think this is reason for the notice to be rejected? Can I do anything? Please help!!

    #2
    Originally posted by JCLinks View Post
    Hello,

    I am a new Landlord and am encountering a nonpaying tenant. I have served a S8 professionally in the name of the 2 tenants a father and son.

    Thing is son has just turned 18 and he is on the AST. Do u think this is reason for the notice to be rejected? Can I do anything? Please help!!
    Why should it be?
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


      #3
      I don't know-that is why I'm asking. The son has filed a counter claim saying we cannot evict because he was a minor? Therefore, he is saying he is not liable?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by JCLinks View Post
        I don't know-that is why I'm asking. The son has filed a counter claim saying we cannot evict because he was a minor? Therefore, he is saying he is not liable?
        They cannot have it both ways. Assuming it is a joint tenancy, then any/all adults named on the TA are now jointly and severally liable for the rent.

        If son was named on the TA when he was a minor, then that was irregular as under 18s cannot be named on ASTs. However, presumably father was also named as a tenant and he is/was therefore liable for the rent by himself. There would only be a problem if ONLY the son had been named on it, as a minor.

        If two months' rent is owning and unpaid, the section 8 is validly served.

        If they do not leave after the 14 days, apply for a court order and once obtained, if necessary, instruct bailiffs who will remove everyone named on the TA and any hangers-on/dependants.
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

        Comment


          #5
          Yes. Legally, the father is the sole T, holding on trust for self and son. The son does not become a joint T merely by becoming aged 18.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for your reply Jeffrey. Can you elaborate slightly. What does your yes refer to?

            I have spoken toa law expert who says a 16 year old can be ona contract for necessaries such as housing?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JCLinks View Post
              Thanks for your reply Jeffrey. Can you elaborate slightly. What does your yes refer to?
              Yes, I can. It refers to this:

              Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
              They cannot have it both ways. Assuming it is a joint tenancy, then any/all adults named on the TA are now jointly and severally liable for the rent.

              If son was named on the TA when he was a minor, then that was irregular as under 18s cannot be named on ASTs. However, presumably father was also named as a tenant and he is/was therefore liable for the rent by himself. There would only be a problem if ONLY the son had been named on it, as a minor.
              OK?

              Originally posted by JCLinks View Post
              I have spoken toa law expert who says a 16 year old can be ona contract for necessaries such as housing?
              Yes, again. However, that's simply dealing with contractual liability.
              Even so, a minor still cannot hold any estate or legal interest in land: hence the need for an implied trust.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                Yes, again. However, that's simply dealing with contractual liability.
                Still dodgy gound if you read the case law on this. Golden rule is: never let to a minor.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by dominic View Post
                  Still dodgy gound if you read the case law on this. Golden rule is: never let to a minor.
                  I agree- whether the minor is a joint T or a sole T, it's a bad idea.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Unfortunately I am learning the hard way.

                    Should I be worried then? I do not have a solicitor-do you think I should have one? I have not had any rent since March.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by JCLinks View Post
                      Unfortunately I am learning the hard way.

                      Should I be worried then? I do not have a solicitor-do you think I should have one? I have not had any rent since March.

                      No more worried than anyone else trying to regain possession of their property from a rent-defaulting tenant via a section 8 notice - in other words, no! The business of his son being a minor is a red herring - ignore it.

                      You could instruct a solicitor (preferably one who specialises in LL and tenant law) if you are anxious, but it is possible to do it yourself. You may find this factsheet about the process useful:

                      http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...-8-notice.html
                      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                      Comment


                        #12
                        As a new user can i say thank you for all the replies I have received.

                        I have submitted the court repossession online and the T has defended. I was advised to respond to some of his points that are untrue but I am not sure how to do this. Can I do it online or do I write a letter of response and post to court?

                        Thanks for your help.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I believe that the online process only allows the submission of the claim, and filing of a Defence.

                          You would need to write to the court, and I suspect that the claim will be transferred from Northampton to your local court.
                          PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                          Comment

                          Latest Activity

                          Collapse

                          • Reply to Joint tenancy agreement, 1 tenant has already moved out
                            by DoricPixie
                            In the opening post you said there was 6 month fixed term AST with both your niece and her now-ex-partner named as joint tenants. Now you are saying there was never a tenancy agreement drawn up.

                            With the benefit of hindsight it would have been better if you'd had your niece pay money into...
                            27-10-2021, 06:33 AM
                          • Joint tenancy agreement, 1 tenant has already moved out
                            by Yorkie2020
                            Good evening all,

                            I wonder if I could get some advice on ending an AST tenancy in England.

                            Originally a 6 month AST last Sept between my niece and her partner, I foolishly listed both on the AST as joint tenants and didn't list him as a permitted, there was no deposit paid....
                            20-10-2021, 19:44 PM
                          • Reply to Joint tenancy agreement, 1 tenant has already moved out
                            by Yorkie2020
                            Guess I've been very lucky this time. My niece has informed her partner that she is ending the tenancy and signing up for a new one in her name only and he is ok with it. She did point out that he will no longer be responsible for any more rent or bills when it's totally in her name.
                            JPkeats,...
                            27-10-2021, 02:02 AM
                          • Reply to Increasing rent
                            by jpkeates
                            There may be something on the NRLA website, but I don't know of a standard template.

                            To be honest that clause doesn't seem to help you a lot, it stops you using a s13 notice (I'd wrongly assumed that because it said "may" you'd be able to) but doesn't actually help you with an...
                            26-10-2021, 17:37 PM
                          • Increasing rent
                            by Berlingogirl
                            Tenancy start date May 2020 in England. 6 month initial AST.
                            My tenancy agreement says
                            “The landlord may increase the rent after the first 52 weeks of the tenancy…..”
                            Is there a specific form I should use?...
                            26-10-2021, 13:33 PM
                          • Reply to Increasing rent
                            by Berlingogirl
                            Thanks jpkeates, I looked at the form 13 but that’s for if you don’t have anything in your tenancy agreement with regard to a rent increase. Is there a pro forma for a rent increase if there is a condition in your TA?
                            26-10-2021, 17:05 PM
                          • Reply to Increasing rent
                            by jpkeates
                            If the tenancy is now an SPT, and you want to be ever so formal (and impose the increase without any agreement), search for form 13 (which is called something else on the government's tenancy forms page).

                            Otherwise, you just need to get the tenant to agree and start paying the new rent...
                            26-10-2021, 13:58 PM
                          • Reply to Advanced rent and S21 Notices
                            by jpkeates
                            It is quite likely that the 2 additional months might be seen as a deposit, unless the tenancy agreement is very specific about the initial payment being for months 1, 5 and 6.

                            If it is a deposit, you won't be able to use a s21 notice without returning it and the deposit will be unlawful...
                            26-10-2021, 08:35 AM
                          • Advanced rent and S21 Notices
                            by Shorif908
                            Hi All,

                            I have recently had new tenants move in.
                            the estate agent did the whole thing and put them in.

                            The arrangement with rent payments was this. 6 months AST Tennants pay last 3 months rent in advance and then make 3 monthly payments in advance. Ie start of the month....
                            26-10-2021, 08:06 AM
                          • Reply to Advanced rent and S21 Notices
                            by Lesney Park
                            BUT to answer your question, yes the 3 months very much look like an unlawful deposit, being for a non-defined period (the last 3 months of a tenancy). If it is for a specific 3 months, its a bit lesss grey but then I'm wondering what you hope to achieve...
                            26-10-2021, 08:35 AM
                          Working...
                          X