Deposit not protected?

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    Deposit not protected?

    Hi,

    I did a post the other day but for some reason I am having trouble logging in so I have had to re-register.

    I urgently need some advice and I think I have confused myself with the vast info on the site.

    The property is currently on an AST for a year from 23 October 2009 to 23 October 2010. The tenant is in 2 months arrears and I just want the property back now.

    1. Can i send section 8 and section 21 (1) (b) notice together with a letter advising of rent arrears and wanting possession?

    - Basically try and get possession and rent etc via s.8 route but if it fails as tenant pays rent... then should I do:

    2. On s 21(1) (b) if i was to serve the notice tomorrow would the date that proceedings can start be 11 August? (if not, what date will this be?) I am so confused with this.

    3. Is the s.21 notice still valid and i can submit another claim again under this in august?

    Thanks for help.

    #2
    Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
    The property is currently on an AST for a year from 23 October 2009 to 23 October 2010. The tenant is in 2 months arrears.
    This advise assumes the tenancy is 23/10/09 to 22/10/10 - a full year, not 1 year and one day.
    1. Can i send section 8 and section 21 (1) (b) notice together with a letter advising of rent arrears and wanting possession?
    Yes. Send 2 copies - from separate post offices with a free certificate of posting. This will be deemed served 2 working days later. Do not use 'recorded' or 'special delivery' as tenant can refuse these.
    2. On s 21(1) (b) if i was to serve the notice tomorrow would the date that proceedings can start be 11 August? (if not, what date will this be?) I am so confused with this.
    The expiry date would be "After 22nd October 2010". The word 'after' is important. You can only issue a s21 if any deposit was protected.
    3. If I decide to go through the section 8 route in the meantime but the tenant pays the rent then is the s.21 notice still valid and i can submit a claim again under this in august?
    Still valid, for October.

    The standard way of doing an s21 is to wait and see if the tenant goes at the expiry date, if not you commence proceedings. However, it seems there is no legal reason why you can't start your legal proceedings as soon as 2 months notice is up, requesting a possession order for October. This is non-standard and I know of no-one who has tried to do it.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
      The property is currently on an AST for a year from 23 October 2009 to 23 October 2010.
      If the term is twelve months it's from 23rd October 2009 to 22nd October 2010.


      The tenant is in 2 months arrears.
      Do not think in terms of arrears, but rent owing and unpaid.

      1. Can i send section 8 and section 21 (1) (b) notice together with a letter advising of rent arrears and wanting possession?
      The letter would be pointless as it would say the same as the notices.


      2. On s 21(1) (b) if i was to serve the notice tomorrow would the date that proceedings can start be 11 August? (if not, what date will this be?) I am so confused with this.
      Unless there is a break clause, the s.21(1)(b) notice cannot expire before the end of the fixed term. (Is there a break clause? If so, exact wording, please).

      3. If I decide to go through the section 8 route in the meantime but the tenant pays the rent then is the s.21 notice still valid and i can submit a claim again under this in august?
      The s.21 is not affected by the s.8 notice or by applying for possession via s.8 procedure.

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you for your quick response..

        sorry your right the date of AST is 23.10.09 - 22.10.10

        There are the following clauses which I think which is what you mean:

        1. Provided that if the rent or any instalment or part of shall be in arrears for at least fourteen days after the same shall have become due (whether legally demanded or not) or if there shall be a breach of any agreement by the tenant the landlord may re-enter on the property (subject always to any statutory restrictions on his power so to do) and immediately thereupon the tenancy shall absolutely determine without prejudice to other rights and remedies of the landlord.

        2. Notice is hereby given that possession might be recovered under ground 1 sch 2 of the HA 1988 ie. the landlord used to live in the property as his or her main home or intend to occupy the property as his or her only or main home.

        3. The tenancy may be brought to an end if the mortgage requires possession on default of the borrowerd under ground 2 sch 2 of HA 1988 - I know this does not apply.

        Comment


          #5
          also I forgot to add do i just address it to the tenant (as per the AST) as I know that his wife and children also live there does this make a difference?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
            also I forgot to add do i just address it to the tenant (as per the AST) as I know that his wife and children also live there does this make a difference?
            If his wife (or any other adult) is named on the tenancy agreement, send it to her/him as well; otherwise, just to him.
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
              There are the following clauses which I think which is what you mean:

              1. Provided that if the rent or any instalment or part of shall be in arrears for at least fourteen days after the same shall have become due (whether legally demanded or not) or if there shall be a breach of any agreement by the tenant the landlord may re-enter on the property (subject always to any statutory restrictions on his power so to do) and immediately thereupon the tenancy shall absolutely determine without prejudice to other rights and remedies of the landlord.

              2. Notice is hereby given that possession might be recovered under ground 1 sch 2 of the HA 1988 ie. the landlord used to live in the property as his or her main home or intend to occupy the property as his or her only or main home.

              3. The tenancy may be brought to an end if the mortgage requires possession on default of the borrowerd under ground 2 sch 2 of HA 1988 - I know this does not apply.
              These are not break clauses. The s.21 notice cannot seek possession earlier than 'after 22nd October 2010' unless there is a provision stating that the contract can be ended before the end of the fixed term.

              However, 2) above provides another ground (in addition to 8, 10 & 11) to use on the s.8 notice. See this link.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
                also I forgot to add do i just address it to the tenant (as per the AST) as I know that his wife and children also live there does this make a difference?
                You address the notice to the person or persons named as 'the Tenant' on the contract. Nobody else.

                If you end up sending the bailiffs in, they evict the T and anyone else living in the property.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thank you for your help, I think I realise what you meant by break clause but its all really in the tenants favour in terms of him wanting to terminate the tenancy earlier but having to pay rent until another tenant is found.

                  I have seen there is a copy of s.21 on the forum so i just need to tick the relevant ground and complete the details? seems very little in comparison to s.8 notice. (sorry for qts)

                  Thank you for your help very much appreciated it's made things much clearer now

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
                    I have seen there is a copy of s.21 on the forum so i just need to tick the relevant ground and complete the details?
                    A s.21 notice does not need to give any ground for possession.

                    http://www.letlink.co.uk/GeneralInfo...on/S21_1_B.pdf

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Deposit not protected?

                      Hi

                      Please can someone help in relation to my sister's boyfriends situation. I am not sure why they have asked me but as a Landlord myself they thought I must know.

                      The situation is that the property was let on a 6 month AST which ended in April of this year.

                      At the time, the landlord was not away on holiday and asked him to leave the keys at the landlords home and not to worry about cleaning the property as they will arrange for it to be done.

                      The deposit which was to be returned was £1,300.00. Since then, the landlord sent a cheque back for £150.00 with a list of the costs incurred in respect of cleaning etc and photos and invoices.

                      The dispute is:

                      - the charges are extortionate (spelling?) and he is unhappy with this. What can he do? He has tried speaking with the Landlord but no luck there.

                      - The deposit does not seem to be protected? - I have said that he should obtain written confirmation from the schemes which hold deposits whether or not the deposit was in fact protected. if they confirm it was not then he should put a claim to the county court - would the claim be for just the deposit? and will he need to send a letter to the landlord that he is taking the necessary action as the deposit is still owing? what happens to the other issues concerning the cleaning etc?

                      Can someone help or direct?

                      Thanks

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post
                        The deposit which was to be returned was £1,300.00. Since then, the landlord sent a cheque back for £150.00 with a list of the costs incurred in respect of cleaning etc and photos and invoices.

                        The dispute is:

                        - the charges are extortionate (spelling?) and he is unhappy with this. What can he do? He has tried speaking with the Landlord but no luck there.
                        The deduction of £1,150 does appear to be extortionate. T should send a letter before action to LL, demanding return of the remainder of the deposit, and give a deadline, a week or two hence, for repayment of the deposit, failing which T will issue a county court claim. And if T doesn't receive payment by the deadline, T should issue a claim via Money Claim Online (I would also advise buying a book on small claims procedure; there are a few on Amazon).

                        See https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
                        - The deposit does not seem to be protected? - I have said that he should obtain written confirmation from the schemes which hold deposits whether or not the deposit was in fact protected. if they confirm it was not then he should put a claim to the county court - would the claim be for just the deposit? and will he need to send a letter to the landlord that he is taking the necessary action as the deposit is still owing? what happens to the other issues concerning the cleaning etc?
                        If T wants to issue a claim for non-compliance with deposit protection and the 3x deposit sanction, it is inadvisable to pursue this as a litigant-in-person, so T should seek professional legal advice. See
                        http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2009/05/...or-tds-claims/

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi, Thank you for your email.

                          I have just had a look at the information that my sisters bf was given. It does not appear to be as straightforward as he first told me.

                          With the AST it mentions a list was also given regarding what should be done e.g. the cleaning etc and who to contact and if it wasn't then deposit monies would be deducted.

                          Further, It seems that the Landlord wrote to him in March giving him a list of things which must be done before he left the property e.g. cleaning the garden - taking weeds out etc and basically a list of things that needed to be cleaned inside and out and that she would meet him before he left the property (which didn't happen as she was away on holiday)

                          Subsequently, the from the deposit only £150 was returned after the landlord having cleaned the property inside and out and has given invoices, pictures and a letter addressing the costs etc.

                          Is it still feasible to send the letter requesting the deposit back?as it still seems the costs were excessive but she has invoices and photos ??

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Maddy1 View Post

                            Is it still feasible to send the letter requesting the deposit back?as it still seems the costs were excessive but she has invoices and photos ??
                            What are the reasonable costs that you have decided should be applied, and where did you get the costings?
                            Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi,

                              My sis bf got the letter around 7th May with a detailed letter of costs and photos, invoices and reasoning behind it.

                              This is the list:

                              1. £200.00 full cleaning of the house - (20 x £10 per hour)
                              2. Gardening £50.00
                              3. Plumber repair flush £60.00
                              4. Replacement of glazed unit £45.00
                              5. damage to worktop £20
                              6. Damage to cieling £23.00
                              7. Cleaning of hob £25
                              8. Hinge £9.00
                              9. Carpets £50.00
                              10. Repainting of walls as 'scratches marked' £250.00
                              11. Fridge broken £75.00
                              12. Electric oven not working £200.00
                              13. time of landlord £60.00 arranging the above

                              the bf agrees with:
                              points 7,9.
                              agrees has to pay something towards points 1, 2, 4

                              and none of the rest.

                              ???? any advice

                              Comment

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