Newbie..... need ur knowledge please.

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    Newbie..... need ur knowledge please.

    I had a verbal agreement with my tenant....nothing in writing...... i know how u trust sum1 u know not to do the dirty on ya. Anywayz....... the T was allowed to stay in the property for free until they were in a financially secure position to pay rent..... from 2001. However after investigating further i have found that the T has been receiving rent since nov 2007 but the tenant that is claiming is not the tenant that is living in the house. So i have let the relevant authorities know as i have not signed any rental contracts. The tenant is claiming that the property is their partners home as they paid for sum of the improvements in the house as they paid via their credit card but i paid them in cash to oversee the works as i was not in the area. The Tenants own property has been refubished which was a derelict building but i believe they have let that out also.
    How do i evict this tenant legally as i cannot go near my property as i have been warned by them that they will call the police and say i am harrassing them. Also because i have been paying the Tenant in cash to oversee the renovations they have all of the work receipts in their name as they were liaising with the workforce and they are saying i never paid them for the works and they paid for the works as it is their marital home which was not in their or their partners name. Unfortunetly relatives can sometime be so devious and use unscupolous means to obtain things that they are not entitled to all for their own monetary gains.............Desperate advice needed

    #2
    I think you are going to have to be a bit clearer if we are to help you.
    Are you saying that the original tenant is subletting your property..........or what?

    Please write in standard english.
    I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

    Comment


      #3
      Yes the original tenant has been collecting rent monies for subletting the property........... but the second tenant is not living there the original tenant is living there

      Comment


        #4
        I'm sorry, it's still not clear.

        You say the original tenant lives there and collects money from a sub tenant that does not live there.

        Sit and think about what you want to say and then put it down clearly.

        Put each point in a separate sentence.

        Write it slowly 'cos I'm a slow reader.
        I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by littleone View Post
          I had a verbal agreement with my tenant......... the T was allowed to stay in the property for free until they were in a financially secure position to pay rent..... from 2001.
          Is the property in England/Wales, with rent less than £2,083.33 per month?

          How do i evict this tenant legally as i cannot go near my property as i have been warned by them that they will call the police and say i am harrassing them.
          You do not evict a tenant by going near the property; you serve proper written notice and then follow up with a court application for possession. Does the tenant owe you any rent? If so, how many months/weeks?

          Also because i have been paying the Tenant in cash to oversee the renovations they have all of the work receipts in their name as they were liaising with the workforce and they are saying i never paid them for the works and they paid for the works as it is their marital home which was not in their or their partners name.
          Who actually paid the workforce/contractors? Why is the tenant going on about it being their marital home and not in their name - how is this relevant?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jta View Post
            I'm sorry, it's still not clear.

            You say the original tenant lives there and collects money from a sub tenant that does not live there.

            Sit and think about what you want to say and then put it down clearly.

            Put each point in a separate sentence.

            Write it slowly 'cos I'm a slow reader.
            Here goes......... purchased property in 2002...property needed extensive repairs.
            As i was not able to oversee the work i let my brothers then wife live in the house..... rent free until 1. she could repair her own property
            2. oversee the renovation works
            3. i let her stay not knowing that she had been evicted from a council property.
            The agreement was that when she was financially able to pay rent she should.

            late last year i found out from the council that rent was being claimed on the home since 2007 at a rate of £110 p/wk.
            I gave the relevant details 2 the council and found out that the tenant claiming was not the tenant i named.
            She is still living in the property herself....... not the tenant named in the so called rental contract.......which i did not sign.
            The problem i am having is that i put the home in my mothers name in the 1st instance as i was not living in the area, my mum was also my guarantor at the time.
            The almost ex is trying to portray that the home is her marital home and i were jus holding on2 the property for my brother. She claims she spent monies on the repairs and refurbishment and has the work receipts in her name as she was over seeing the works.
            Her house has been repaired but she hasn't moved in.
            As for the rent she received..... i've not seen a penny of it from oct 2007 to march 2010.
            The council is investigating the matter as fraud which i am helping them with.
            I need to get her out of the house some how and i need to dissaprove her false claims.
            She is claiming she and my brother were and are the owners and has put that in her divorce settlement claim through her solicitors.
            When i purchased the property her sister put in a sealed bid but she could not come up with the monies so i bought the property myself with that bid...once i proved i had the asking amount. To be brutally honest i simply don't know where istand or what to do

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by littleone View Post
              Here goes......... purchased property in 2002...property needed extensive repairs.
              As i was not able to oversee the work i let my brothers then wife live in the house..... rent free until 1. she could repair her own property
              2. oversee the renovation works
              3. i let her stay not knowing that she had been evicted from a council property.
              The agreement was that when she was financially able to pay rent she should.

              late last year i found out from the council that rent was being claimed on the home since 2007 at a rate of £110 p/wk.
              I gave the relevant details 2 the council and found out that the tenant claiming was not the tenant i named.[/QUOTE

              That does sound like fraud, the amount involved could even involve jail time
              She is still living in the property herself....... not the tenant named in the so called rental contract.......which i did not sign.
              If you have never accepted any rent from her then I believe she could be an excluded occupier, but I'm not sure of that. Somebody else will enlighten you there.

              The problem i am having is that i put the home in my mothers name in the 1st instance as i was not living in the area, my mum was also my guarantor at the time.
              Does that mean your Mum is the registered owner?

              The almost ex is trying to portray that the home is her marital home and i were jus holding on2 the property for my brother. She claims she spent monies on the repairs and refurbishment and has the work receipts in her name as she was over seeing the works.
              Whatever she has spent has no relevance on the ownership issue.

              Her house has been repaired but she hasn't moved in.
              As for the rent she received..... i've not seen a penny of it from oct 2007 to march 2010.
              The council is investigating the matter as fraud which i am helping them with.
              I need to get her out of the house some how and i need to dissaprove her false claims.
              She is claiming she and my brother were and are the owners and has put that in her divorce settlement claim through her solicitors.
              When i purchased the property her sister put in a sealed bid but she could not come up with the monies so i bought the property myself with that bid...once i proved i had the asking amount. To be brutally honest i simply don't know where istand or what to do
              Stay calm, there are remedies. First we have to decide exactly what her status is, since you did actually give her permission to live there, albeit rent free, it muddies the waters a bit, give our members a chance to think it through.
              I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by littleone View Post
                Here goes......... purchased property in 2002...property needed extensive repairs.

                The agreement was that when she was financially able to pay rent she should.

                late last year i found out from the council that rent was being claimed on the home since 2007 at a rate of £110 p/wk.
                Forget the fraudulent benefit claim. Does your sister-in-law pay you rent? Has she ever paid you rent? If so, does she owe you any rent?

                And in your first post you say she paid rent from 2001 - before you bought the property??

                The problem i am having is that i put the home in my mothers name in the 1st instance as i was not living in the area, my mum was also my guarantor at the time.
                What do you mean you put it in your mother's name? Do you mean the title of the property - i.e. your mother is technically the owner of the house? Whose name is on the title at the Land Registry? Your mum was guarantor for what?

                To be brutally honest i simply don't know where istand or what to do
                Neither do we unless you provide clear answers to questions. So please answer the questions in this post and in my previous post.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by westminster View Post
                  Forget the fraudulent benefit claim. Does your sister-in-law pay you rent? Has she ever paid you rent? If so, does she owe you any rent?

                  And in your first post you say she paid rent from 2001 - before you bought the property??


                  What do you mean you put it in your mother's name? Do you mean the title of the property - i.e. your mother is technically the owner of the house? Whose name is on the title at the Land Registry? Your mum was guarantor for what?


                  Neither do we unless you provide clear answers to questions. So please answer the questions in this post and in my previous post.
                  My sister in law has never paid me rent....however the agreement was she would pay when she was financially able 2.

                  Secondly i have checked my deeds i purchased the prprty in 2002....sorry my mistake.

                  I borrowed money off family and friends to pay for property so she was the named owner up until 2008 when i relocated back to the area. She was the guarontor if i failed to clear my borrowed debt.

                  I am the regestered owner of the home with land registry.

                  Sorry for any mistakes i do sincerely apolagize!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by littleone View Post
                    I borrowed money off family and friends to pay for property so she was the named owner up until 2008 when i relocated back to the area. She was the guarontor if i failed to clear my borrowed debt.

                    I am the regestered owner of the home with land registry.
                    By 'she', you mean your mother was the named owner up until 2008? I don't quite understand how you bought the property, but then didn't own the property until 2008?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by westminster View Post
                      By 'she', you mean your mother was the named owner up until 2008? I don't quite understand how you bought the property, but then didn't own the property until 2008?
                      I am so sorry for confusing you westminister..... sincere apolagies.
                      The reason was that before i could sign any paperwork i had to leave the area so i asked my mother if she would become the owner until i could get back.

                      i did not return until early 2008 whereby i transferred the property into my name.

                      I left my mother with the monies to purchase the property for me with the agreement that she would transfer the property to me upon my return which was unspecified when i left.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by littleone View Post
                        I am so sorry for confusing you westminister..... sincere apolagies.
                        The reason was that before i could sign any paperwork i had to leave the area so i asked my mother if she would become the owner until i could get back.

                        i did not return until early 2008 whereby i transferred the property into my name.
                        No need for apologies. I am just trying to get to the bottom of the situation, as there are a lot of confusing aspects.

                        Your explanation for transferring ownership to your mother doesn't really make sense. Having to 'leave the area' isn't a good reason to have to pass the title to somebody else. It's probably irrelevant, but I'm asking in case there is yet another facet to the story which might be relevant.

                        As I said, it's probably irrelevant, since you are now and have been the legal owner of the house since 2008 BUT it's just possible that something happened between 2002 and 2008 which gave your sister-in-law additional rights of tenure. Did she pay rent to your mother, perhaps?

                        And you haven't answered my question about who actually paid for the renovation work at the property. Did your sister-in-law pay and you reimbursed her, or what?

                        At the end of the day, whatever your answers are, you can definitely evict your sister-in-law fairly easily, but the procedure for doing it depends on your answers.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by westminster View Post
                          No need for apologies. I am just trying to get to the bottom of the situation, as there are a lot of confusing aspects.

                          Your explanation for transferring ownership to your mother doesn't really make sense. Having to 'leave the area' isn't a good reason to have to pass the title to somebody else. It's probably irrelevant, but I'm asking in case there is yet another facet to the story which might be relevant.

                          As I said, it's probably irrelevant, since you are now and have been the legal owner of the house since 2008 BUT it's just possible that something happened between 2002 and 2008 which gave your sister-in-law additional rights of tenure. Did she pay rent to your mother, perhaps?

                          And you haven't answered my question about who actually paid for the renovation work at the property. Did your sister-in-law pay and you reimbursed her, or what?

                          At the end of the day, whatever your answers are, you can definitely evict your sister-in-law fairly easily, but the procedure for doing it depends on your answers.
                          No rent has been paid to my mother nor did she sign any rental contracts.
                          I reimbursed my sister in law for the works carried out on the property but she is claiming i have not paid her at all as i paid her in cash.

                          One thing i did forget to mention was that when i told the council that my T was in arrears they made a months payment into my account...... not realising at the time that a fraud had been committed.

                          That issue is to be sorted out soon between me and the council...ie;if they would like a repayment or not

                          Comment


                            #14
                            As I see this, OP definitely intended to create a tenancy, getting a payment, of any sort, from LA has muddied the water even further. Does that make it a tenancy or not? He will have to pay it back to the LA if it is the result of fraud but he did not know that at the time. The issue of who paid for the repairs is irrelevant, that makes no difference to ownership.

                            I believe the best way forward for the OP is to treat it as if it were a tenancy and issue S8 g's 8/10/11 immediately, also a S21(4)(a) as a backup in case that fails. As far as the rent owed is concerned, he should not attempt to recover anything from when his mother was the putative owner, only from when he registered the property in his own name. There would be other ways to chase the earlier debts.

                            The alleged fraud case could possibly be brought into it by using ground 14 on his S8 as well, that would mean he could bypass the 14 day waiting period and go straight for a court date.
                            I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jta View Post
                              As I see this, OP definitely intended to create a tenancy, getting a payment, of any sort, from LA has muddied the water even further. Does that make it a tenancy or not? He will have to pay it back to the LA if it is the result of fraud but he did not know that at the time. The issue of who paid for the repairs is irrelevant, that makes no difference to ownership.

                              I believe the best way forward for the OP is to treat it as if it were a tenancy and issue S8 g's 8/10/11 immediately, also a S21(4)(a) as a backup in case that fails. As far as the rent owed is concerned, he should not attempt to recover anything from when his mother was the putative owner, only from when he registered the property in his own name. There would be other ways to chase the earlier debts.

                              The alleged fraud case could possibly be brought into it by using ground 14 on his S8 as well, that would mean he could bypass the 14 day waiting period and go straight for a court date.
                              I agree the safest way to proceed is via notice/court application for possession, especially given the likelihood that there are other facts which OP hasn't told us. However, as no rent seems to have been agreed or paid, I'm not sure whether s.8 gr.8/10/11 could be used??

                              S.21(4)(a) presents problems, too, as there are no rental periods. (I suppose a saving clause could be used).

                              Personally, I think I would try to evict on the basis that sister-in-law is an excluded occupier. Not sure how one would do this, but presumably form N5 and tick 'other' under 'grounds for possession', and perhaps put "Occupier's licence is excluded under s.3A(7)(b) Protection from Eviction Act 1977" (i.e. A tenancy or licence is excluded if it is granted otherwise than for money or money's worth.)

                              Comment

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