serving section 21(1)(b)

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    serving section 21(1)(b)

    Hi All,
    My tenant is on a statutory periodic tenancy, next rent is due 23 June. Want to serve section 21(1)(b). Where it says date of expiry or at the end of the period of your tenancy which will end next after the expiration of two months from the service upon you of this notice - I should put 22nd August. Is that right?
    Thanks for your expert advice

    #2
    Originally posted by neilm View Post
    Hi All,
    My tenant is on a statutory periodic tenancy, next rent is due 23 June. Want to serve section 21(1)(b). Where it says date of expiry or at the end of the period of your tenancy which will end next after the expiration of two months from the service upon you of this notice - I should put 22nd August. Is that right?
    It should be a s.21(4)(a) notice for a SPT.

    The periods are not decided by the rent due date, but by the frequency of rent payments, and the date that the fixed term expired.

    So, if the T pays monthly, and if the last day of the fixed term was, for example, 15th May, the periods would begin on 16th May and run 16th to 15th of the month. The s.21(4)(a) notice would have to seek possession *after* 15th of the month (and give T at least two months' notice).

    Keep a copy of the notice and get a *free* certificate of posting to prove delivery (signed for services can go undelivered because T refuses to sign, or misses the postman and doesn't go to pick up the letter from the sorting office). If you want to be doubly sure, post two identical copies of the notice from two separate post offices and get two certificates of posting.

    The notice is deemed served two working days after posting, so allow for that and don't leave it too close to the 'deadline' for service.

    See also:
    http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...d-tenancy.html
    http://www.letlink.co.uk/GeneralInfo...on/S21_4_A.pdf

    Comment


      #3
      just want to get the dates right

      Thankyou westminster,
      ok the 6 month ast started on 23 may 2009, finished on 23 nov. Logically then, spt started on 24 nov. Next rent is due 24th june. On the s 21(4) (a) many thanks for the link, the date of expiry should be 23 june or 23 august
      thanks again
      neilm

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by neilm View Post
        Thankyou westminster,
        ok the 6 month ast started on 23 may 2009, finished on 23 nov.
        23rd May to 23rd November inclusive is six months plus one day, not six months, (just as 1st January to 1st February is one month and one day; 1st January to 31st January is one month).

        Does the contract actually say the last day is the 23rd November, or does it just say six months starting from 23rd May? If the latter, then the last day of the fixed term is 22nd November.

        The answer to this question is crucial to getting the expiry date of the s.21 correct.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by neilm View Post
          Thankyou westminster,
          ok the 6 month ast started on 23 may 2009, finished on 23 nov. Logically then, spt started on 24 nov. Next rent is due 24th june. On the s 21(4) (a) many thanks for the link, the date of expiry should be 23 june or 23 august
          thanks again
          neilm
          No. If it starts on 23 May, it ends on 22 Nov.
          So SPT began on 23 Nov. Probably rent falls due on each 23rd.
          And s.21(4)(a) expiry ought to be 'after 22 [month]'.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            No. If it starts on 23 May, it ends on 22 Nov.
            Yes, if the contract says it's a term of six months starting 23rd May.

            Possibly not, if the contract says it's a term of six months starting on 23rd May and ending on 23rd November - because it would be unclear whether the term given is incorrect, or whether it's the end date which is incorrect. What's the default position, if there is one? I would tend to think that if 23rd November is actually specified as the last day, you'd have to proceed on the basis the SPT began on 24th November.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by westminster View Post
              Yes, if the contract says it's a term of six months starting 23rd May.

              Possibly not, if the contract says it's a term of six months starting on 23rd May and ending on 23rd November - because it would be unclear whether the term given is incorrect, or whether it's the end date which is incorrect. What's the default position, if there is one? I would tend to think that if 23rd November is actually specified as the last day, you'd have to proceed on the basis the SPT began on 24th November.
              True. We need to know the precise wording appearing in the AST Agreement.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                senders reply

                Thanks everybody,
                It is a fixed term of 6 months from 23 may 2009. From your previous comments i assume the term ends on the 22nd nov and the spt started on the 23 nov, the rent is payable on the 23 of each month. On the s21 form the expiry date should be 22 june or 22 august (2 months notice).

                Thanks again
                neilm

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by neilm View Post
                  Thanks everybody,
                  It is a fixed term of 6 months from 23 may 2009. From your previous comments i assume the term ends on the 22nd nov and the spt started on the 23 nov
                  Correct.

                  On the s21 form the expiry date should be 22 june or 22 august (2 months notice).
                  I don't know why you keep referring to two alternative expiry dates? There is only one expiry date, and 22nd June is less than a month away, so that wouldn't give T at least two months' notice.

                  If the notice was served anytime between now and 22nd June (don't leave it too close to the deadline, do it next week), the expiry date to put would be 22nd August.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by westminster View Post
                    the expiry date to put would be 22nd August.
                    That had better read the expiry date to put would be "after 22 August".
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                      That had better read the expiry date to put would be "after 22 August".
                      I already advised OP of the 'after' wording in post #2, and also provided a template s.21(4)(a) which has this written into the template. One assumes it isn't necessary to constantly repeat advice already given.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        sender reply

                        Thankyou westminster and jeffrey. Sorted and understood. Legal jargon is not my speciality and i do not want to get it wrong in front of the bench!

                        thanks again
                        neilm

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by westminster View Post
                          One assumes it isn't necessary to constantly repeat advice already given.
                          I wish that this were true- but we both realise that it's not.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment

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