tenancy states 4 weeks in advance but council dont agree

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    tenancy states 4 weeks in advance but council dont agree

    Dear Forum

    Im trying in vain to get the rental money suspended to a tenant who has a drug and sexual problem in one of my HMO.

    I changed my tenancy agreements recently to make sure that they read payment is needed 4 weeks in advance.

    The problem I have is that now the tenant is 5 weeks in arrears plus the 4 weeks needed to be paid in advance, but the council at Rugby BC still want to pay him his money.

    I have written to them on numerous occasions and explained that he has a drug problem, is stealing others cheques and now been told that hes trying it on sexually with other vunerable tenants, but there still wanting him to receive his benefits.

    Im fighting a losing battle with a council that always wants to pay money out or do nothing to assist myself or other landlord in the area with these type of tenants.

    The tenant does not want to give me his rent book, but simply wants to be endlessly abusive and stands in front of me playing with himself, the guy is sick, but the councils attitude also makes me furious.

    Any help welcome on how to tackle this issue with council. I have served tenant with section 8 notice on ground 14.

    thank you in advance

    #2
    Your tenant has to have at least 8 weeks unpaid before the HB dept wil pay you for definite.

    So requiring payment in advance is something they will ignore.

    So the council will not suspend it.
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by thesaint View Post
      Your tenant has to have at least 8 weeks unpaid before the HB dept wil pay you for definite.

      So requiring payment in advance is something they will ignore.

      So the council will not suspend it.
      Incorrect, the guidance is now 4 weeks. This thread may help OP

      http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=25100

      Comment


        #4
        thank you, its simple then for me, no more HB, i'll rather keep the rooms empty

        Comment


          #5
          You are not the only landlordwho has been obliged to come to this decision. Let us hope that the new coalition administration will sort this matter out so that landlords are once again prepared to offer accommodation to H.B. tenants which will do much to ease the housing shortage problem.

          P.P.
          Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
            Incorrect, the guidance is now 4 weeks. This thread may help OP

            http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=25100

            From the thread:

            Originally posted by Michael (Topic Expert) View Post
            Also, the DWP advice is merely guidance and is not a statement of law.
            I called my local HB dept last week, and they still will not do it until 8 weeks.

            That is why I said "for defintite" in my reply, as in "8 weeks, and you will definitely be paid direct".

            Originally posted by rugbyroom View Post
            thank you, its simple then for me, no more HB, i'll rather keep the rooms empty
            You have to factor in whether you can sustain an 8 week "hit" evry 12 months for the HB tenant. For a lot of landlords, it is worth it.
            Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by thesaint View Post
              I called my local HB dept last week, and they still will not do it until 8 weeks.

              That is why I said "for defintite" in my reply, as in "8 weeks, and you will definitely be paid direct"
              Thesaint: I agree, it is only guidance, but from the rest of the thread you will see the comments about Housing Officers constantly quoting the 'guidance' in arguments with landlords - goose, gander?

              I would add that some authorities don't even follow the laws, let alone the guidance. I drew one part of the 2006 act to my LAs attention and they said "we don't do it that way". I presume council officers have the authority to over-rule the Secretary of State - Not!

              Comment


                #8
                Keep in mind:
                1. L and T agree (in the Letting Agreement) how much rent T is pay to L (and when).
                2. Council determine to how much HB/LHA T is entitled (and when - and to whom- it will be paid).
                3. Item 1 has noting to do with item 2!
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                  Keep in mind:
                  1. L and T agree (in the Letting Agreement) how much rent T is pay to L (and when).
                  2. Council determine to how much HB/LHA T is entitled (and when - and to whom- it will be paid).
                  3. Item 1 has nothing to do with item 2!
                  Whilst its correct to say that (1) and (2) are separate; it's incorrect to say that they are completely unrelated, for the following reasons:
                  (a) T may not apply for a HB/LHA claim without a letting agreement, or at least, e.g. a letter from the LL confirming tenancy start date, term, rent, etc.
                  (b) The Council will only pay housing benefit for the duration of the tenancy -determined by the letting agreement.
                  The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by rugbyroom View Post
                    I changed my tenancy agreements recently to make sure that they read payment is needed 4 weeks in advance.

                    The problem I have is that now the tenant is 5 weeks in arrears plus the 4 weeks needed to be paid in advance, but the council at Rugby BC still want to pay him his money.
                    If the tenancy agreement states rent is paid 4 weeks in advance, then the T is now 9 weeks in rent arrears.

                    A LL's request for LHA direct payments for tenants in 8 weeks or more arrears is a mandatory ground under HB Regs 2006.

                    Write to the head of housing benefit, requesting their decision* in writing. Send two copies, keep proofs of postage.

                    If the Council claim that the 4 weeks in advance stated on the tenancy agreement is not relevant to the 8 weeks rent arrears, tell them they are incorrect, and refer to the recent case:
                    Doncaster v Coventry City Council, First Tier Tribunal 032/09/00932, 5 October 2009


                    Originally posted by rugbyroom View Post
                    I have written to them on numerous occasions and explained that he has a drug problem, is stealing others cheques and now been told that hes trying it on sexually with other vunerable tenants, but there still wanting him to receive his benefits.
                    If the Council* do not pay the LL direct from 8 weeks rent arrears point, the LL has the right to appeal - exercise your rights!

                    You may be able to claim compensation for the local authorities maladministration of housing benefit. See: this thread, post #19 onwards.
                    The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tom999 View Post
                      Whilst its correct to say that (1) and (2) are separate; it's incorrect to say that they are completely unrelated, for the following reasons:
                      (a) T may not apply for a HB/LHA claim without a letting agreement, or at least, e.g. a letter from the LL confirming tenancy start date, term, rent, etc.
                      (b) The Council will only pay housing benefit for the duration of the tenancy -determined by the letting agreement.
                      Yes, I agree (and sorry for dropping my h!) That's why I didn't claim that the two are completely unrelated- only that whatever L and T agree is not conditioned by how much HB/LHA T will be entitled to claim (and when - and to whom- it will be paid).
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Is the person involved with any agencies such as social services, drug and alcohol teams, etc? If he is, try and get hold of them, explain the situation and you may be able to get it paid direct under the Safeguard Policy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by tom999 View Post

                          If the Council claim that the 4 weeks in advance stated on the tenancy agreement is not relevant to the 8 weeks rent arrears, tell them they are incorrect, and refer to the recent case:
                          Doncaster v Coventry City Council, First Tier Tribunal 032/09/00932, 5 October 2009
                          I have read the section "8 weeks arrears", and it seems to suggest that they take the view that arrears can not be for a period not yet served.

                          They then seem to suggest that they are seeking clarification.
                          I don't fully understand what their conclusion is, can you tell me in layman's terms please.
                          Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Doncaster v Coventry City Council, First Tier Tribunal 032/09/00932, 5 October 2009

                            Originally posted by thesaint View Post
                            I don't fully understand what their conclusion is, can you tell me in layman's terms please.
                            In summary:
                            The tenants rent was payable in advance. The landlord made a written request to Coventry CC for direct payments (i.e. the tenant was 8 weeks or more in arrears, so HB Regs, s.95 applied). Coventry CC replied and stated direct payments would not be made to the landlord because "according to our records your tenant is not 8 weeks in arrears with rent payments".

                            The LL appealed against Coventry CC's decision, and won.

                            Judgement of CJ Jones:
                            "Compensation is due to the appellant and should be paid now rather than the appellant pursue a protracted application to the Ombudsman. Decision 3629/2006 specifically refers to the issue of compensation.

                            In making this decision I have considered the Housing Benefit Local Housing Allowance Guidance Manual as amended in March 2008 and in particular the note at the foot of 6.86 - 6.89 that rent cannot be in arrear in respect of a period that has not been served.

                            I do not agree with that view. Rent is in arrears once the contractual date for payment has passed irrespective of whether rent is due in advance or in arrear. Regulation 95 of the 2006 Regulations refers to a liability to pay rent and the liability in this case is to pay rent in advance." [CJ Jones]
                            The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Good- that sounds right, for a change, and it also accords with T's usual contractual obligations too.
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

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