Previous T's works make premises unsafe- new T's rights?

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    Previous T's works make premises unsafe- new T's rights?

    hi my home has been deemed uninhabitable.
    through the neglect of our h/a amicus horizon.
    dodgy repairs.not bothering half the time,
    they are now going to move us into temp accom,to carry out works.we are overcrowded,2 persons registered disabled,
    we have been treated unfairly,
    we are up for a 4 bed will the temp accom be a 4 bed ,and can they move us back to a 3 bed

    where do we stand

    as in decant
    as in companstoin
    will our borough help us
    is this a legal matter

    #2
    Originally posted by msteel66 View Post
    as in decant
    as in companstoin
    I'm sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.

    will our borough help us
    is this a legal matter
    Yes, very probably. Get in touch with the local council's tenancy officer and explain your situation to them.

    Comment


      #3
      support wall

      hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by msteel66 View Post
        hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?
        I would strongly argue that it is and that you might want to address the problem rather quickly, the weight of the bricks alone could be enough to bring it down.

        Typically where a wall rests on an opening you would have a reinforced concrete or steel beam.

        Comment


          #5
          yes my thoughts exactly
          the open span is 12ft the whole width of f/room,
          the house was sold to our h/a would they have paperwork on this alteration,
          because this is a breech of building regs and fire safty reg ?

          Comment


            #6
            Well it is hard to say without looking at it.

            I would have thought an original wall would go all the way through the ceiling so why would there be a joist there?

            Is it an oldish house and the joist really thick ie 3inches or more? If so it could be original.

            It would be odd for the wall to have been removed and wood joist inserted instead of a steel.

            Comment


              #7
              Contact the council and ask them to check whether planning permission/building consent was ever sought (and granted) for the removal of a wall at this property.

              When a property is sold, the conveyancer should indeed be aware of any major alterations (a surveyor will have picked up on them) and should have checked that they were done legally and safely.
              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by msteel66 View Post
                hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?
                If there are bricks on the first floor wall but nothing below it, then yes - floor joists will not take the weight of bricks. The floor will start bowing, and you will almost certainly see a V shaped cracking (originating from the centre of the wall and going upwards diagonally as the bricks move and drag the plaster with it.

                Get a structural engineer in!


                You do see what looks like supporting walls actually not supporting any weight - a house I am renovating now had a single skin wall that was floating free - insomuch you could push it and it would move. At the top there was about 2 inches between the wall and the floor board (it ran alongside the floor joist).

                We took out the wall as it was very wonky - it was doing nothing apart from offer a serious fall hazzard.

                In your case, though, get a professional in to take a look.
                Liability statement. My liability to you is not to exceed the amount you are paying for my recommendations or advice.

                I see a bright new future, where chickens can cross the road with no fear of having their motives questioned

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by msteel66 View Post
                  hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?
                  Are you a long-leaseholder or a 1988 Act/ 1977 Act tenant?
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by msteel66 View Post
                    hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?
                    I wouldn't panic too much:
                    Every wall in our 1930's house running from front to back excluding building perimeter walls and party wall is made of ash block and resting on floorboards.
                    None have a wooden base, and they don't all coincide with a supporting beam.
                    They are simply old fashioned stud partitioning equivalent. They have sagged to differing amounts, creating sloping doorways, with the true loadbearing wall side of the doorway remaining 'unsubsided'...

                    If the otherside of the hallway is an outside wall then unlikely to be a loadbearing wall; (especially if joists are running in parallel to former wall).
                    Look under your carpets to see if a wall hole has been filled in, or you have continuous flooring. The roof Load Bearing wall may well be one (if several), of the walls dividing front rooms from rear.
                    These will of course also be carrying weight of floors, furniture, people etc...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Markonee1 View Post
                      I wouldn't panic too much:
                      Every wall in our 1930's house running from front to back excluding building perimeter walls and party wall is made of ash block and resting on floorboards.
                      None have a wooden base, and they don't all coincide with a supporting beam.
                      They are simply old fashioned stud partitioning equivalent. They have sagged to differing amounts, creating sloping doorways, with the true loadbearing wall side of the doorway remaining 'unsubsided'...

                      If the otherside of the hallway is an outside wall then unlikely to be a loadbearing wall; (especially if joists are running in parallel to former wall).
                      Look under your carpets to see if a wall hole has been filled in, or you have continuous flooring. The roof Load Bearing wall may well be one (if several), of the walls dividing front rooms from rear.
                      These will of course also be carrying weight of floors, furniture, people etc...
                      I have also seen this in houses from that period but the OP refers to a 12ft gap that was knocked out by a recent occupant.

                      Clearly not by design and from my own construction experience, far to wide to be supported by a joist.

                      You are right I suspect that it is an "internal wall" but opening is two wide

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                        Are you a long-leaseholder or a 1988 Act/ 1977 Act tenant?
                        Apparently a housing association tenant. See OP's previous thread.
                        http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=28631

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The cracks are worrying as they indicate recent movement. I should get a structural engineer in. Building Control should be contacted.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Wauden View Post
                            The cracks are worrying as they indicate recent movement.
                            Depends on the size/width of the cracks.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Wauden View Post
                              The cracks are worrying as they indicate recent movement. I should get a structural engineer in. Building Control should be contacted.
                              Not necessarily. After building work some cracks can appear and be normal as the new build settles.

                              OP needs to consider, is there evidence that the cracks are getting wider? Measure them one day and then for a few days to see if they are. Stick a paper measure by a crack and take pictures each day.

                              A wall will usually collapse in a /\ pattern as the topmost bricks act like keystones as they lean into each other, anything between the lines falling.

                              Is there any sign of movement along the top of the wall where it meets the ceiling?

                              Is the floor bowed?

                              When someone walks upstairs does the floor sag or move or does the wall creak at all?

                              Any abnormal movement or noises?

                              If OP is concerned at all then he/she should take immediate steps to prevent a possible collapse by propping up the wall in concern with a piece of 4 x 2 running along the ceiling, propped up with a piece of 4 x 2 timber, supported on the floor along another piece of 4 x 2 to spread the load on the floor timbers, if a suspended timber floor.

                              I appreciate that it may not be the T's responsibility, but this is of little consequence or consolation if T or any visitors to property get injured as a result of a collapse.

                              This has issue has been discussed for a few days now with no remedial, preventive or even investigative work apparently carried out. That is the most worrying fact.

                              pm
                              Last edited by property mongrel; 25-05-2010, 21:02 PM. Reason: to add that I had not seen that they were to be rehomed as pointed out below. thank you
                              Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

                              Comment

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