Previous T's works make premises unsafe- new T's rights?

[msteel66]

hi my home has been deemed uninhabitable.
through the neglect of our h/a amicus horizon.
dodgy repairs.not bothering half the time,
they are now going to move us into temp accom,to carry out works.we are overcrowded,2 persons registered disabled,
we have been treated unfairly,
we are up for a 4 bed will the temp accom be a 4 bed ,and can they move us back to a 3 bed

where do we stand

as in decant
as in companstoin
will our borough help us
is this a legal matter

[westminster]

as in decant
as in companstoin

I'm sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.

will our borough help us
is this a legal matter

Yes, very probably. Get in touch with the local council's tenancy officer and explain your situation to them.

[msteel66]

support wall

hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?

[matthew_henson]

hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?

I would strongly argue that it is and that you might want to address the problem rather quickly, the weight of the bricks alone could be enough to bring it down.

Typically where a wall rests on an opening you would have a reinforced concrete or steel beam.

[msteel66]

yes my thoughts exactly
the open span is 12ft the whole width of f/room,
the house was sold to our h/a would they have paperwork on this alteration,
because this is a breech of building regs and fire safty reg ?

[ah84]

Well it is hard to say without looking at it.

I would have thought an original wall would go all the way through the ceiling so why would there be a joist there?

Is it an oldish house and the joist really thick ie 3inches or more? If so it could be original.

It would be odd for the wall to have been removed and wood joist inserted instead of a steel.

[mind the gap]

Contact the council and ask them to check whether planning permission/building consent was ever sought (and granted) for the removal of a wall at this property.

When a property is sold, the conveyancer should indeed be aware of any major alterations (a surveyor will have picked up on them) and should have checked that they were done legally and safely.

[Wickerman]

hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?

If there are bricks on the first floor wall but nothing below it, then yes - floor joists will not take the weight of bricks. The floor will start bowing, and you will almost certainly see a V shaped cracking (originating from the centre of the wall and going upwards diagonally as the bricks move and drag the plaster with it.

Get a structural engineer in!


You do see what looks like supporting walls actually not supporting any weight - a house I am renovating now had a single skin wall that was floating free - insomuch you could push it and it would move. At the top there was about 2 inches between the wall and the floor board (it ran alongside the floor joist).

We took out the wall as it was very wonky - it was doing nothing apart from offer a serious fall hazzard.

In your case, though, get a professional in to take a look.

[jeffrey]

hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?

Are you a long-leaseholder or a 1988 Act/ 1977 Act tenant?

[Markonee1]

hi my f/room ceiling plaster is cracked,there is a brick wall above it sitting on floorboards on one joist,the previos tennants knocked the wall out between the f/room and hallway,could this wall be a supporting wall?

I wouldn't panic too much:
Every wall in our 1930's house running from front to back excluding building perimeter walls and party wall is made of ash block and resting on floorboards.
None have a wooden base, and they don't all coincide with a supporting beam.
They are simply old fashioned stud partitioning equivalent. They have sagged to differing amounts, creating sloping doorways, with the true loadbearing wall side of the doorway remaining 'unsubsided'...

If the otherside of the hallway is an outside wall then unlikely to be a loadbearing wall; (especially if joists are running in parallel to former wall).
Look under your carpets to see if a wall hole has been filled in, or you have continuous flooring. The roof Load Bearing wall may well be one (if several), of the walls dividing front rooms from rear.
These will of course also be carrying weight of floors, furniture, people etc...

[matthew_henson]

I wouldn't panic too much:
Every wall in our 1930's house running from front to back excluding building perimeter walls and party wall is made of ash block and resting on floorboards.
None have a wooden base, and they don't all coincide with a supporting beam.
They are simply old fashioned stud partitioning equivalent. They have sagged to differing amounts, creating sloping doorways, with the true loadbearing wall side of the doorway remaining 'unsubsided'...

If the otherside of the hallway is an outside wall then unlikely to be a loadbearing wall; (especially if joists are running in parallel to former wall).
Look under your carpets to see if a wall hole has been filled in, or you have continuous flooring. The roof Load Bearing wall may well be one (if several), of the walls dividing front rooms from rear.
These will of course also be carrying weight of floors, furniture, people etc...

I have also seen this in houses from that period but the OP refers to a 12ft gap that was knocked out by a recent occupant.

Clearly not by design and from my own construction experience, far to wide to be supported by a joist.

You are right I suspect that it is an "internal wall" but opening is two wide

[westminster]

Are you a long-leaseholder or a 1988 Act/ 1977 Act tenant?

Apparently a housing association tenant. See OP's previous thread.
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=28631

[Wauden]

The cracks are worrying as they indicate recent movement. I should get a structural engineer in. Building Control should be contacted.

[westminster]

The cracks are worrying as they indicate recent movement.

Depends on the size/width of the cracks.

[property mongrel]

The cracks are worrying as they indicate recent movement. I should get a structural engineer in. Building Control should be contacted.

Not necessarily. After building work some cracks can appear and be normal as the new build settles.

OP needs to consider, is there evidence that the cracks are getting wider? Measure them one day and then for a few days to see if they are. Stick a paper measure by a crack and take pictures each day.

A wall will usually collapse in a /\ pattern as the topmost bricks act like keystones as they lean into each other, anything between the lines falling.

Is there any sign of movement along the top of the wall where it meets the ceiling?

Is the floor bowed?

When someone walks upstairs does the floor sag or move or does the wall creak at all?

Any abnormal movement or noises?

If OP is concerned at all then he/she should take immediate steps to prevent a possible collapse by propping up the wall in concern with a piece of 4 x 2 running along the ceiling, propped up with a piece of 4 x 2 timber, supported on the floor along another piece of 4 x 2 to spread the load on the floor timbers, if a suspended timber floor.

I appreciate that it may not be the T's responsibility, but this is of little consequence or consolation if T or any visitors to property get injured as a result of a collapse.

This has issue has been discussed for a few days now with no remedial, preventive or even investigative work apparently carried out. That is the most worrying fact.

pm