L using break clause; is the s.21(1)(b) Notice defective?

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    #16
    Yes. I agree with Lawcrucher's analysis.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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      #17
      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
      Yes. I agree with Lawcrucher's analysis.
      ....so the notice doesn't have to expire after 14th July?

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        #18
        The Notice, according to the Break Clause, is to end the letting at any time before the expiry of the term but not before sixth months from the commencement date...[by] not less than two months written notice...". "Any time" means "any time"!
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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          #19
          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
          The Notice, according to the Break Clause, is to end the letting at any time before the expiry of the term but not before sixth months from the commencement date...[by] not less than two months written notice...". "Any time" means "any time"!
          Therefore, the answer to post #11

          Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
          Shouldn't the notice be after 14th July, anyway.
          is no, not yes, as you said in post #12.

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            #20
            Originally posted by westminster View Post
            Therefore, the answer to post #11



            is no, not yes, as you said in post #12.
            But my answer related to an ordinary s.21 Notice, without the 'break-clause' refinements applicable here.
            Plus I do not have time to re-read a whole thread's prior contents on each occasion that I post. Do you?
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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              #21
              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
              But my answer related to an ordinary s.21 Notice, without the 'break-clause' refinements applicable here.

              Plus I do not have time to re-read a whole thread's prior contents on each occasion that I post. Do you?
              An 'ordinary' s.21(1)(b) notice would not have to expire 'after 14th July', it need only give T at least two months' notice, and your comment referred to a previous discussion so I assumed you had read the first page of the thread.

              I'm not trying to score a point, simply trying to establish the correct answer, as post #12 totally confused me, given that you're the expert and I'm not.

              And yes, I do read a thread before commenting, and any new comments which others have made since I last viewed the thread, particularly those from the OP clarifying facts which may have been unclear in the initial post.

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                #22
                Originally posted by happytown View Post
                A section 21b notice was hand delivered to the tenants on the 11th May 2010 but was dated 12 May 2010. The notice asked for possession on the 11th July 2010 or at the end of the period of the tenancy which will end next after the expiration of two months from the service upon this notice.
                Ok, now I understand. Because of the saving clause it didn't matter that the possession date didn't match up with the periodic date.

                Sorry for confusing things.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
                  Ok, now I understand. Because of the saving clause it didn't matter that the possession date didn't match up with the periodic date.

                  Sorry for confusing things.
                  I should hope so, too! Your punishment shall be a ten minute attempt to argue with Jeffrey.
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
                    Ok, now I understand. Because of the saving clause it didn't matter that the possession date didn't match up with the periodic date.

                    Sorry for confusing things.
                    As I understand it, it's nothing to do with the saving clause, it's because a s.21(1)(b) notice does not have to expire at the end of a 'period', and because the break clause provision allows the tenancy to be ended at 'any time' (but not before six months).

                    I think the wording of the saving clause about periods is a red herring.

                    In any case, I'm still not convinced there are periods within a fixed term, or not in the sense of periods in a periodic tenancy.

                    Even if there are periods of a sort in a fixed term, in this case they'd run 14th - 13th of the month.

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