Non-AST; forgery by T; arrears; how to evict T?

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    Non-AST; forgery by T; arrears; how to evict T?

    Hello All

    Although i have an AST contract with my tenant...i have found out it cannot apply as rent is over £25k per year...I found this out when i tried to secure the deposit in a scheme but it was rejected for this reason

    My tenant has broken several clauses of the agreement not least owing me £6684 in rent for which I have a ccj against her...she refuses to pay so I want her gone..

    My question is HOW??

    I know what to do is i had an AST but in this case I am stumped...

    -I cant issue section 8?
    - what pre court notice do i serve?
    -can I use PCOL

    Please help...any friendly advice will be very welcome to a very distressed LL
    Many thanks

    #2
    Hi Heebs

    You need to look at the contract you have with the tenant. There should be a clause, at least, that tells you how to end the tenancy.
    I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by jta View Post
      Hi Heebs

      You need to look at the contract you have with the tenant. There should be a clause, at least, that tells you how to end the tenancy.
      Hi Jta,..thanks for the reply and directing me to this great site...

      I am pasting below what my contract says...I can hardly understand it but I am assuming I can get possession after 14 days rent overdue???or is that a wishful translation
      3. PROVIDED ALWAYS and IT IS HEREBY AGREED as follows :-
      (a) (i) If the rent or any instalment or part thereof shall be in arrears or unpaid for at least 14 days after the same shall have become due (whether legally demanded or not) or
      (ii) In the event of the breach of any of the agreements on the part of "The Tenant" herein contained or implied or
      (iii) If the property shall without consent as aforesaid be left vacant or unoccupied in excess of 28 days or
      (iv) If "The Tenant" being an individual shall become bankrupt or being a company shall enter into liquidation whether compulsory or voluntary ( save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation as a solvent company ) or if "The Tenant" shall enter into any composition with his creditors or suffer any distress on his goods in the property The Landlord may re-enter on the property and thereupon the tenancy shall absolutely determine without prejudice to any other remedy of The Landlord

      Comment


        #4
        I agree.
        Subject to the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, the Letting Agreement is a common-law contractual arrangement which applies more or less literally.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
          I agree.
          Subject to the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, the Letting Agreement is a common-law contractual arrangement which applies more or less literally.

          Hi Jeffrey....im sorry ..please can you explain what this clause means in plain English...i am referring to the clause I pasted above from my contract with the tenant...i would be very grateful...

          Does it mean I have a right to get possession..

          can I use moneyclaim online...or do i need to use different forms as I dont have a AST.

          many thanks

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by heebs View Post
            please can you explain what this clause means in plain English...Does it mean I have a right to get possession?
            It means that:
            a. you can recover the property (and re-enter it) once T owes a fortnight's rent or breaks any other obligations; but
            b. if T still occupies, you cannot force your way in. You'd need a Possession Order and Court bailiffs.
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks so much Jeffery...and JTA

              It makes me feel so much better...

              But still stumped as to how to get court order if not section 8 or PCOL and what notice to serve..is there any min time i must give tenants to vacate before I can apply to court?

              I dont want to get refused possesion on serving the wrong notice to tenant to going down the PCOL route if it doesnt apply here.

              Do I just use form N5

              Comment


                #8
                As the 1988 Act and forms do not apply, you simply start Possession proceedings on the strength of the Letting Agreement.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #9
                  I hate to say this, but few of us here except our legal experts have much experience as to how to handle common law tenancies. The procedures for taking court action to secure evictions where AST's are in force are well documented and clearly laid down for the landlord to follow. To obtain an eviction order with a common law tenancy requires legal skills that most of us are not equipped with thus you are advised to consult a solicitor who is experienced in this sort of thing. I would guess that many are as they will be dealing with other common law tenancies which are used for business premises. It is also to be pointed out that if you are using a common law tenancy then you should be in receipt of a substantial rental income which would justify the retention of a solicitor to handle things for you. It would appear that you have rather let things get a little out of hand as such a large debt is owed before contemplating legal action.
                  As the vast majority of us use AST's then we have read books which describe them and how to handle court procedings concerning them. If we had to use common law tenancies, then we would have done the same thing. So you can either get the books on them and mug it up yourself, or consult a solicitor who will have done this and passed exams on it!

                  Under the circumstances, I sympathise with our legal experts for not being too forthcoming on your problem.

                  P.P.
                  Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The problem you will have here is that you are unable to use the accelerated possession process, and I do not think you can use PCOL either.

                    You would have to serve a notice to quit, and you would have to be careful about the dates of the notice.

                    Once the notice expires you can commence a part 8 claim for possession.

                    You can also try to get a possession order relying on the contractual clause you referred to earlier. This would not require any notice, but again would be a part 8 claim.

                    Personally I would serve a notice to quit, and then seek a possession order. It means a further delay of around a month, but avoids any argument at court over whether you are allowed to rely on the contractual clause. (If you get a junior judge who gets confused).
                    PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Many thanks for those that have posted some very useful info...

                      just to clarify...Paul..is part 8 claim the same as a section 8..or is section 8 just for ASTs...?

                      thanks again

                      Comment


                        #12
                        No.
                        Part 8: the Civil Procedure Rules (for all relevant court proceedings).
                        Section 8: the Housing Act 1988 (for ASTs and SATs only)
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Forgery: T forged L's signature so as to gain extra Benefits

                          Hello All

                          I have a HB tenant who has pocketed nearly £5k of HB ...I tried calling the council to let them know she has a husband but they said she is claiming as a single mother and they are satisfied she is.

                          Today, after reading the bailiffs report mentioning a contract for £1000 per week rent I rang the council to ask which rental agreement my tenant has submitted

                          they told me its a contract for £1000 per week...i told them that is not the contract and my rent is only £750 per week...I asked if my signature was on the false contract and they said it was,

                          I am so livid that this tenant has forged my signature to claim extra HB,,i have come up against one brick wall after another with this tenant by authorities telling me its a civil matter and nothing i can do

                          Is forging someones signature also a civil matter? I am so angry...how dare she forge my signature to steal HB

                          Any advice..anyone?
                          thanks in advance

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I would report it to the police. This is fraud.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              £750 per week? What is this property - Windsor Castle or something?
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment

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