Getting bond back, but unfair deductions

[epiphany]

Hi all,

Well my landlord has finally got round to sending my bond back after 2 months of not being able to get in touch with him.

Only problem is now he has taken £50 off for cleaning. When I phoned the office, the inspector of the property told me they had to clean the bathroom tiles, windows, fridge freezer and carpets.

What really annoys me is I cleaned the place top to bottom, and the place wasn't exactly clean when I moved in. I feel like they have decided to go for that big, general clean and charged me for it.

Is it worth me taking legal action over the deducted £50 as I obviously can't PROVE that I cleaned the place thoroughly.

I'm so so frustrated, I seriously want this landlord to go bankrupt - that would make me laugh after what he's put me through. A complete idiot and waste of space.

[welshgold]

Is it worth me taking legal action over the deducted £50 as I obviously can't PROVE that I cleaned the place thoroughly.
.

well that sums it up, you cant prove how clean you left it, so how can you take legal action. and of course one persons opinion of clean, might be another persons opinion of dirty.

[epiphany]

well that sums it up, you cant prove how clean you left it, so how can you take legal action. and of course one persons opinion of clean, might be another persons opinion of dirty.

Yeh you're right, and in the back of my mind I know that. I think I need to bang my head against a brick wall a few times.

[pippay]

Was there an inspection carried out by the LL/Letting Agent when you vacated the property?

Yeh you're right, and in the back of my mind I know that. I think I need to bang my head against a brick wall a few times.

[zoe]

well that sums it up, you cant prove how clean you left it, so how can you take legal action. and of course one persons opinion of clean, might be another persons opinion of dirty.

he doesn't have to prove this. The LL needs to prove that it was not left as it was taken.

[epiphany]

The LL needs to prove that it was not left as it was taken.

If this is the case, I will go through small claims court about it.

I'm not doubting your knowledge on this, but I just need to be sure that his lack of proof will win me the claim, rather than my lack of proof lose me the claim.

Thanks for feedback guys.

[epiphany]

Was there an inspection carried out by the LL/Letting Agent when you vacated the property?

Yes, the inspection was carried out by one of the Landlord's employees. It's impossible to get in touch with these people.

[pippay]

Was an inspection of the property carried out, in your presence, when you vacated the property?

If this is the case, I will go through small claims court about it.

I'm not doubting your knowledge on this, but I just need to be sure that his lack of proof will win me the claim, rather than my lack of proof lose me the claim.

Thanks for feedback guys.

[lawstudent]

The LL needs to prove that it was not left as it was taken.

If this is the case, I will go through small claims court about it.

I'm not doubting your knowledge on this, but I just need to be sure that his lack of proof will win me the claim, rather than my lack of proof lose me the claim.

Thanks for feedback guys.

Well, it also depends on what you agreed to in the lease and what you said or didn't say at the outset. For example, if the lease says that it is to be left in the same good clean state and condition as at the start, and you took it on in dirty condition but said nothing, you could be on shaky ground.

As has been said, cleanliness is subjective. But the quality of proof is also subjective and nothing is certain in court, so for £50 it might be best to forget it.

[pippay]

But surely if an exit check was done and agreed the LL would be on shaky ground?

I don't understand why it matters whether the tenant took the property on in a dirty state and didn't say anything?? I don't see the relevance at all especially with regard to what was said or not said by the tenant as neither have a bearing on the condition the property was left in and, as you know Lawstudent, what was said verbally cannot be proven in any case!

Well, it also depends on what you agreed to in the lease and what you said or didn't say at the outset. For example, if the lease says that it is to be left in the same good clean state and condition as at the start, and you took it on in dirty condition but said nothing, you could be on shaky ground.

As has been said, cleanliness is subjective. But the quality of proof is also subjective and nothing is certain in court, so for £50 it might be best to forget it.

[lawstudent]

But surely if an exit check was done and agreed the LL would be on shaky ground?
it depends on what was agreed and by whom
I don't understand why it matters whether the tenant took the property on in a dirty state and didn't say anything??
it could consitute an implicit acceptance that it was in the condition stated in the lease (if anything was stated)
I don't see the relevance at all especially with regard to what was said or not said by the tenant as neither have a bearing on the condition the property was left in and, as you know Lawstudent, what was said verbally cannot be proven in any case!
This reminds me of Billy Bunter: "I didn't eat your cream bun and you can't prove it anyway".

Of course what was said may be more difficult to prove than what was written, but if I say in court under oath that I said something or that someone else said nothing, that is still evidence and then it is up to the judge whether or not it is believed.

I would not recommend either tenant or LL to go to court on this one. The whole thing is a subjective minefield and everyone's time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

[epiphany]

Of course what was said may be more difficult to prove than what was written, but if I say in court under oath that I said something or that someone else said nothing, that is still evidence and then it is up to the judge whether or not it is believed.

I would not recommend either tenant or LL to go to court on this one. The whole thing is a subjective minefield and everyone's time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

Thankyou for the succinct answer.

After finally speaking 1-1 with the LL he told me he had spent "over £1000" cleaning the place up, but he seemed to think only £50 of that should come out of my deposit

£1000 to clean up the place - I wasn't born yesterday.

He joked and said "I can send you the bill if you like"

What a strange man.

Thanks all you've been a big help.

[pippay]

Don't supopsed you were given a copy of the inspection report, were you?

Yes, the inspection was carried out by one of the Landlord's employees. It's impossible to get in touch with these people.

[epiphany]

Don't supopsed you were given a copy of the inspection report, were you?

Yes, posted to me with my bond cheque.

It has a run down of what/where they cleaned - deduction = £50

[pippay]

Sorry I meant given a copy at the time of the inspection which you should, for the protection of your interests, have been present at (although not sure if this is mandatory - I don't think it is!) .. obviously they've done this as as afterthought.

But to be honest, I don't think there's much to gain by taking this to court, even though you do feel it's unfair and I understand completely that it's a point of principle for you.

In the great big scheme of things it's not that much money when compared to some deductions other posters on here have reported, and it will cost you £30 just to get it to court, and it's 50/50 as to who the judge sides with. So maybe it will be better for your stress levels if you let this one go and mark it down to experience.

When I moved into my place, I picked up on every word in the inventory .. like the words "new carpets", when clearly they weren't and "newly redecorated" when the walls were two different shades of magnolia and the internal doors were painted half in gloss and half in satin finish! I got them to sign my copy and I signed theirs. Needless to say, I will be as thorough when I leave the place too and get a signature against the outgoing inventory so there won't be any "disagreements" at a later date !!

Yes, posted to me with my bond cheque.

It has a run down of what/where they cleaned - deduction = £50