Deposit scheme is this fraud

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Deposit scheme is this fraud

    Hi just a question as it seem rather odd to me.

    Deposit I paid years ago was never protected i now have a periodic AST. The tenant that was joint tenant left ..however the landlord has now protected the deposit 2.5 yrs later listing a lead tenant that does not live here anymore and given my email address [that i never gave landlord] for online deposit registration.

    is this not fraud to misrepresent facts to enter a contract and also a breach of the data protection laws...

    hmmm something fishy.. of course it was with the DPS the only crooked scheme that allows landlords to break the law and cover their bums at the last moment...shady shady.. are the DPS not aiding people break the law?

    hmm
    what do you think?

    #2
    I guess the good thing is that your deposit is protected now - that is what is important.

    Going off on a tangent - you can not have a periodic tenancy based on an AST that contained someone else.

    The AST (and if applicable SPT) ran until the former tenant left or when the fixed term ended (whichever was later). You now seem to have an oral tenancy agreement in your name only. This may be relevant to your deposit claim because the deposit relates to the tenancy of you and A.N.Other, not to your current tenancy. Therefore A.N.Other could conceivably claim his/her deposit today because that tenancy is over.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ladysharrow View Post
      Deposit I paid years ago was never protected i now have a periodic AST. The tenant that was joint tenant left ..however the landlord has now protected the deposit 2.5 yrs later listing a lead tenant that does not live here anymore and given my email address [that i never gave landlord] for online deposit registration.
      It is not at all clear from this whether the joint tenancy has been formally ended or not. The physical departure of a joint tenant does not necessarily, in itself, end the joint tenancy - formal notice should be given, in writing, to expire at the end of a rental period (after the fixed term has expired). This would then end the tenancy for both joint tenants, and if one tenant remained, that tenant would have to negotiate a new contract as a sole tenant, or a new oral contract would arise by default.

      If this didn't happen, then the joint tenant who left might still be a tenant and it would be correct for the landlord to protect the deposit in the names of both joint tenants.

      Comment


        #4
        Going off on a tangent - you can not have a periodic tenancy based on an AST that contained someone else.

        The AST (and if applicable SPT) ran until the former tenant left or when the fixed term ended (whichever was later). You now seem to have an oral tenancy agreement in your name only. This may be relevant to your deposit claim because the deposit relates to the tenancy of you and A.N.Other, not to your current tenancy. Therefore A.N.Other could conceivably claim his/her deposit today because that tenancy is over.[/QUOTE]



        Hmm hope not as i would like some money back when i leave..

        that is the problem you see ..I can not deal with the DPS it has to be the lead tenant they deal with ..who is not here anymore and thus the landlord protected the deposit knowing she was not here ..and used my email to register the lead tenant.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by westminster View Post
          This would then end the tenancy for both joint tenants, and if one tenant remained, that tenant would have to negotiate a new contract as a sole tenant, or a new oral contract would arise by default.

          If this didn't happen, then the joint tenant who left might still be a tenant and it would be correct for the landlord to protect the deposit in the names of both joint tenants.

          Notice was served before fixed term ran out. I stayed on as i am moving to a new area in June..

          Hmm i did try and email the DPS but wont deal with me!! i am not lead tenant...thus my question was it fraud ..

          I know i did not give the landlord my email address as he's a pervy old creep..

          thus if he got it somehow say in the public domain [not sure how but you never know with creepy types] can he use my email without asking me to start a contract..

          or do i need to start hurting my head reading contract law as well.
          after reading the terms and conditions of DPS head hurts...


          oral contract is that not something just verbal as in never any written tenancy

          i need a gin and tonic..

          bit of a hefty deposit i placed

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ladysharrow View Post
            Notice was served before fixed term ran out. I stayed on as i am moving to a new area in June..
            Did the notice expire before or after the expiry of the fixed term?

            thus my question was it fraud
            Forget it. There is no obvious fraud, and even if there was the police are really unlikely to be interested in something as minor as this.

            oral contract is that not something just verbal as in never any written tenancy
            Oral contract = verbal contract.

            If you want useful advice, you need to give more information than you've given. Right now, it's extremely vague.
            1. Is the rental property in England/Wales, rent less than £2,083 per month, with a non-resident landlord?
            2. Did you and Tenant2 sign a fixed term joint AST tenancy?
            3. If so, what date (day/month/year) did the fixed term start and end?
            4. Did you both pay a deposit or just you?
            5. If you didn't sign anything, how did the tenancy start - what exactly happened in terms of key handover, rent paying, moving in, etc?
            6. What date did T2 give notice?
            7. What date did T2 move out?
            8. What was LL's response?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by westminster View Post
              Did the notice expire before or after the expiry of the fixed term?

              The notice was given a month prior to the end of fixed term

              Forget it. There is no obvious fraud, and even if there was the police are really unlikely to be interested in something as minor as this.

              oh well

              Oral contract = verbal contract.

              thanks for that

              If you want useful advice, you need to give more information than you've given. Right now, it's extremely vague.

              Yes I agree, sorry , I am trying to get advice for free as it seems to a lot of knowledge in the forum whilst not trying to expose myself, my apologies
              1. Is the rental property in England/Wales, rent less than £2,083 per month, with a non-resident landlord?

                [COLOR="blue"]It is in England rent less than 2,083 per month with non- resident landlord COLOR]

              2. Did you and Tenant2 sign a fixed term joint AST tenancy?

                yes both our names were on the AST and it was renewed every 6 mths
              3. If so, what date (day/month/year) did the fixed term start and end?

                the last fixed term ran from 5 May 2009- 5 Nov 2009

              4. Did you both pay a deposit or just you?

                I paid deposit but we signed together ..ie the ast

              5. If you didn't sign anything, how did the tenancy start - what exactly happened in terms of key handover, rent paying, moving in, etc?

                We did sign a new agreement every six months , paid deposit , no inventory but he started doing one after the first 6 months and increased rent.. inventory..ie looking down toilet etc [ is that the norm]
              6. What date did T2 give notice?

                4th October 2009
              7. What date did T2 move out?

                3rd November 2009

              8. What was LL's response?

                Tenancy ran out in November 2009 and no new signing of any agreement I still paid rent as before..but more of course to cover all


              sorry about the blue font , i cant seem to work out how to quote your posts without a big jumble of html


              thanks very much for your time

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by westminster View Post

                Oral contract = verbal contract.
                Surely it is the case that strictly speaking, all property/legal contracts are verbal (= based on words, as opposed to pictures, signs in the sand, body language (!) or anything else); it is more a case of whether they are oral (spoken but not written down) or written.

                I do appreciate however that the phrase 'a verbal contact' is understood by many people to mean 'an oral contract'.

                I'll slink back to Pedant's Corner now!

                Oh - guess who's here...
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                  Surely it is the case that strictly speaking, all property/legal contracts are verbal (= based on words, as opposed to pictures, signs in the sand, body language (!) or anything else); it is more a case of whether they are oral (spoken but not written down) or written.

                  I do appreciate however that the phrase 'a verbal contact' is understood by many people to mean 'an oral contract'.

                  I'll slink back to Pedant's Corner now!

                  Oh - guess who's here...
                  I too would have used the word 'verbal' for a non-written contract but I remember seeing someone told-off by your co-habitee of 'pedants corner' some time ago!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You say the last fixed term ran 5th May to 5th November - this is unusual because it includes 7 "5ths" in a 6 month term. Normally it would be "A period of 6 months from 5th May 2009", in which case the last day would be 4th Nov.

                    In that case, your joint tenancy eneded (in legal terms) on 4th December - because rent is bought in whole months.

                    So, from 5th December you have had a (new) sole tenancy.

                    As I said before, the deposit relates to the old 'joint tenancy' so

                    1) you need to liaise with your former friend to organise its return to her, who can in turn divide it as appropriate. If she does so, but doesn't split it correctly, and you have proof that the original payment was yours, then you may need to claim it via www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

                    OR

                    2) Explain to pervy landlord that the deposit he has protected is incorrect becasue it relates to a different tenancy. Ask him to change it with the deposit company (I don't know if he can). If you explain that he won't be able to use the deposit against this tenancy unless he does so, it might focus his mind.

                    There is a process with DPS called the 'single claim process' which allows the landlord to withdraw the deposit without the tenants (your friend) co-operation. I would be wary of doing so, but LL may have to withdraw it that way and then re-protect it in your name.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                      Surely it is the case that strictly speaking, all property/legal contracts are verbal (= based on words, as opposed to pictures, signs in the sand, body language (!) or anything else); it is more a case of whether they are oral (spoken but not written down) or written.

                      I do appreciate however that the phrase 'a verbal contact' is understood by many people to mean 'an oral contract'.

                      I'll slink back to Pedant's Corner now!

                      Oh - guess who's here...
                      Usage note from Dictionary.com:

                      Verbal has had the meaning “spoken” since the late 16th century and is thus synonymous with oral: He wrote a memorandum to confirm the verbal agreement. Slightly earlier, verbal had developed the meaning “expressed in words, whether spoken or written (as opposed to actions)”: Verbal support is no help without money and supplies. Although some say that the use of verbal to mean “spoken” produces ambiguity, it rarely does so. Verbal is used in this sense in all varieties of speech and writing and is fully standard. The context usually makes the meaning clear: No documents are necessary; a verbal agreement (or contract or order) will suffice. Oral can be used instead of verbal if the context demands: My lawyer insists on a written contract because oral agreements are too difficult to enforce.

                      Lawyers need on the one hand to be precise, but on the other to recognise how language is used by non-lawyers. A careful lawyer should therefore always refer to an agreement not in writing as "oral", but not insist that verbal can only mean "expressed in words".

                      Comment

                      Latest Activity

                      Collapse

                      Working...
                      X