tenancy notice & rent period

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    tenancy notice & rent period

    My property is let on a periodic monthly tenancy.

    The tenancy began on the 15th of the month.

    The tenant gave me notice on the 19th of March that they wished to move out.

    Is it right that they have to give a full month notice from the start of the rental period ie the 15th. In which case this would make them liable for rent up to the 15th of May.

    Is this the case?

    Also has anybody any experience of this being upheld by the arbitrators should the matter be disputed under the TDS?

    Many thanks in advance

    #2
    Was it an AST created as a contractual periodic tenancy from day1?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      No it was originally fixed term and then became periodic

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by scribbler View Post
        In which case this would make them liable for rent up to the 15th of May.
        No, 14th May - being the last day of the previous tenancy period. UNLESS the fixed term ended 14th April, in which case no notice would have been required to move out on 14/4/10.

        Comment


          #5
          For clarity then. My tenant who gave notice on the 19th march is only liable to pay rent up to the 19th april?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
            No, 14th May - being the last day of the previous tenancy period. UNLESS the fixed term ended 14th April, in which case no notice would have been required to move out on 14/4/10.
            Originally posted by scribbler View Post
            For clarity then. My tenant who gave notice on the 19th march is only liable to pay rent up to the 19th april?
            Unlikely (but not impossible)

            So I can give you accurate information, I need the following details...

            When did the tenancy start?
            How long was the fixed term?
            How much was the rent?
            Is the property in England/Wales?
            When was notice given?

            Comment


              #7
              What is important is not when the fixed term began, but when it ended. That is because the periodic tenancy starts on the day after the fixed term ends. Further, the periods of the tenancy are calculated with reference to the first day of the periodic tenancy and not the days on which rent is paid, though the two may be the same.

              Comment


                #8
                Sorry for delay in getting back but i've been away.

                The original tenancy was a fixed term for 6 months started on the 14th may 2008. This became a statutory periodic tenancy. However, on the 1st June 2009 there was a new tenancy agreement granted verbally with rent payable from the 1st of the month. This tenancy was I presume periodic in that no fixed period was agreed.

                The tenant then gave me notice by email on the 15th march that would be moving out by the 19th April but then moved out on the 15th April.

                Again, what would their rental liability be?

                Would they be liable to pay rent :

                a) for period from 15th march - 15th april
                b)for period from 15th march - 19th april
                c) for period from 15th march - end of april

                I hope this makes sense?
                Last edited by scribbler; 12-05-2010, 09:03 AM. Reason: correction

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by scribbler View Post
                  The original tenancy was a fixed term for 6 months started on the 14th may 2008. This became a statutory periodic tenancy. However, on the 1st June 2009 there was a new tenancy agreement granted verbally with rent payable from the 1st of the month. This tenancy was I presume periodic in that no fixed period was agreed.
                  When the original fixed term expired on 13th (?) November 2008, a statutory periodic tenancy followed, as from 14th November 2008 (assuming I've guessed the expiry date correctly).

                  The periods of this tenancy would be 14th - 13th of the month, and notice would have to expire on the 13th of the month.

                  I am not sure that you granted a new contractual periodic tenancy in June 2009. Could well be that you just agreed to amend the rent payment date, in which case the original periods would still apply. What did you actually agree with the T in June 2009? Did T pay an apportioned sum of rent for May 14th - 30th?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    They did agree to pay an aportioned amount of rent to the end of the month and then start paying a new lower rent from the first. All this was done verbally.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think that you can prove the contractual periodic tenancy began on the 1st of the month. Therefore, notice given 19th March would make the last day of the tenancy 30th April.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                        I think that you can prove the contractual periodic tenancy began on the 1st of the month. Therefore, notice given 19th March would make the last day of the tenancy 30th April.
                        Yes (as you mean Notice from T). A corresponding Notice from L- s.21(4)(a)- would have to run for over two months, to/inc. 31 May.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                          I think that you can prove the contractual periodic tenancy began on the 1st of the month. Therefore, notice given 19th March would make the last day of the tenancy 30th April.
                          If a new contractual periodic tenancy was created on 1st June 2009, (and the new rent agreed further evidences this), then this raises the spectre of deposit protection. The deposit should have been re-protected against the new tenancy.

                          Scribblers's original post asked whether TDS adjudication would uphold rent liability under a periodic tenancy to the end of a period etc.

                          If Scribbler means TDS as in http://thedisputeservice.co.uk/ then the deposit won't be protected, because it has not been re-registered for the new tenancy, and the TDS's provisions have not been included in the (oral) contract. So the adjudication service won't uphold anything.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Interesting point Westminster. It was never intended to create a new tenancy. The agreement was to continue the tenancy but with a reduced rent. Would it be reasonable to argue that the tenancy was just a continuation of the statutory periodic tenancy but with a reduced rent and changed payment date?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by scribbler View Post
                              The original tenancy was a fixed term for 6 months started on the 14th may 2008. This became a statutory periodic tenancy. However, on the 1st June 2009 there was a new tenancy agreement granted verbally with rent payable from the 1st of the month. This tenancy was I presume periodic in that no fixed period was agreed.

                              The tenant then gave me notice by email on the 15th march that would be moving out by the 19th April but then moved out on the 15th April.

                              Originally posted by scribbler View Post
                              Interesting point Westminster. It was never intended to create a new tenancy. The agreement was to continue the tenancy but with a reduced rent. Would it be reasonable to argue that the tenancy was just a continuation of the statutory periodic tenancy but with a reduced rent and changed payment date?
                              You're giving contradictory information.

                              However, if the latter is the true situation and what was really agreed, then yes I think it's reasonable to argue that. Because the periods of a statutory periodic tenancy are calculated, not by the rental payment date, nor by the sum of rent, but by the date the fixed term ended and the frequency of the rental payments.

                              Again, assuming that I've guessed correctly that the last day of the fixed term was 13th November, then the periods run 14th to 13th of the month.

                              T gave notice on 15th March (two days into a period), therefore his liability would continue up to and including 13th June.

                              Nevertheless, if T disputed it, given that the agreement was oral/verbal, it's possible he could succeed in arguing that a new contractual periodic tenancy was created (in which case his liability would continue only up to 30th April - and TDS may argue that the deposit isn't protected).

                              Either way, his liability extends beyond 15th/19th April (whichever he is claiming).

                              Comment

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