Notice to my LL

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    Notice to my LL

    Hello everyone,

    I am planning to move out of my current property at the end of my Tenancy Agreement on 5th May. Although I was told by the LA and LL that the agreement is subject to 2 moth notice I believe the current legislation says that it should be 1 month.

    I emailed the agent on the 30th March and also sent the letter to my LL stating my intentions to leave on or before the 5th May (more than 1 month notice. However, I just got text from LL saying that she never received my letter and asking me to re-send it to her again.

    I am also in dispute with her over my deposit - she didn't re-protect it and was threatened by her that I may not even receive it back because I failed to give her the 2 month notice.

    Do you think I should re-send the notice to her now again? Is there a trick she is trying to play?

    Many thanks for your help,
    Anton

    #2
    Don't worry - there is NO obligation on you to give notice at the end of a fixed term - no matter what the tenancy agreement says. You signed an agreement saying you would be there for 6/12 months - if you leave on 5th May you have complied with that.

    I presume you moved into the current property before 6/4/07? If so, re-protection of the deposit is a grey area. However, reclaiming it through the court is reasonably straight forward. Remember this principle - the money is legally yours, unless the landlord can prove any damages etc. Providing your rent is up to date, you have no concerns about rent & notice period, so you should get it all back providing the property is in good condition. Write to the landlord, saying that you will go to court if it isn't returned within 14 days of the end of the tenancy. If it isn't returned, you can start your claim at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk. It is not expensive, and if you win (which you should) the landlord will be ordered to refund your court costs too.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
      I presume you moved into the current property before 6/4/07?
      Thanks for your reply Snorkerz!

      I actually moved in last year on the 6th May 2009. Currently I am already suing my LL for failing to re-protect my deposit. In short the story is that the agent that protected it first on her behalf went into liquidation and when I demanded she re-protect it she refused. So I filed Part 8 for deposit + 3*deposit (which is around £5,500). She should reply to the court next week by 28 April.

      But just to confirm - is there no obligation legally to give 1 month notice at all? I though LL must give 2 month and T 1 month notice before leaving? My main worry is that she received the papers from the court and will be trying to take a legal action against me in return.

      From what I have read on this forum, most LLs are willing to settle the claim out of the court after receiving the claim for 3*deposit which is not the case with my LL for some reason and this worries me!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Platomey View Post
        Thanks for your reply Snorkerz!

        I actually moved in last year on the 6th May 2009. Currently I am already suing my LL for failing to re-protect my deposit. In short the story is that the agent that protected it first on her behalf went into liquidation and when I demanded she re-protect it she refused. So I filed Part 8 for deposit + 3*deposit (which is around £5,500). She should reply to the court next week by 28 April.

        But just to confirm - is there no obligation legally to give 1 month notice at all? I though LL must give 2 month and T 1 month notice before leaving? My main worry is that she received the papers from the court and will be trying to take a legal action against me in return.

        From what I have read on this forum, most LLs are willing to settle the claim out of the court after receiving the claim for 3*deposit which is not the case with my LL for some reason and this worries me!
        After the fixed term, the tenant must give 1 month, or the landlord 2 - however there is NO obligation on you to give notice at the end of a fixed term.

        With regard to your part 8 claim, I feel you are unlikely to get an out of court settlement because the recent Draycott v Hannells Lettings Ltd case in the High Court established that if a landlord protects the deposit in accordance with the deposit companies rules before the court case then the 3x sanction is not applicable. This can only be done with DPS as TDS and MyDeposits conditions do not allow late protection.

        If this does happen, I believe the landlord is liable for your costs up until the date the deposit is protected - BUT - I can't remember where I read that so you'd need to do a little research.

        Comment


          #5
          After the fixed term, the tenant must give 1 month, or the landlord 2 - however there is NO obligation on you to give notice at the end of a fixed term
          Thanks again! Then I am not even going to re-send the notice to her.

          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
          I can't remember where I read that so you'd need to do a little research.
          Yes, I have read this case and TBH I am only interested in my deposit and even if I don't get 3*deposit and will be happy to get back what I am owed.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Platomey View Post
            TBH I am only interested in my deposit and even if I don't get 3*deposit and will be happy to get back what I am owed.
            I see you read my advice elsewhere too ;-)

            Why did you submit your claim via Part 8? - a 'deposit only' case would be cheaper and simpler (and probably quicker) via www.moneyclaim.gov.uk or an N1 form with a view to having it heard on the small claims track.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
              Why did you submit your claim via Part 8?
              Three reasons:

              1. I hadn't read your advice before submitting it
              2. I wanted to punish my LL who was threatening me and bullying into extension of the Tenancy Agreement
              3. I was advised on another forum to submit Part 8 as the only available option

              Do you think it would make sense now for me to withdraw the Part 8 claim and do another one through Moneyclaim? I know I would lose £150.00 spent on Part 8 but having the prospect of sorting it out quicker is really more important for me that potential bonus of 3*deposit (which is anyway unlikely scenario now). Or is it a stupid plan?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                After the fixed term, the tenant must give 1 month, or the landlord 2 - however there is NO obligation on you to give notice at the end of a fixed term
                Could you please point me to the relevant Legislation or any other source on that? I am moving out next week and I had a fixed-term one year contract (as I said before) with 2 months notice stated in the contract. So even though I gave her 1 month notice (she claims she never received the letter, but I have a print-out of the email to the agent) she is still demanding (by letter most likely written by a solicitor) a 2 month notice starting only when she receives it

                So where do I stand? Can I just reply to her "There is no legal requirement to give any notice" (full stop here)? Or no reply at all is needed?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Platomey View Post
                  Could you please point me to the relevant Legislation or any other source on that? I am moving out next week and I had a fixed-term one year contract (as I said before) with 2 months notice stated in the contract. So even though I gave her 1 month notice (she claims she never received the letter, but I have a print-out of the email to the agent) she is still demanding (by letter most likely written by a solicitor) a 2 month notice starting only when she receives it

                  So where do I stand? Can I just reply to her "There is no legal requirement to give any notice" (full stop here)? Or no reply at all is needed?
                  I would most probably write her a letter, send it recorded, and cite that under the Housing Act there is no legal requirement for you provide notice to end a fixed term tenancy. However as a goodwill gesture you did provide this to both the LA and her on XXX (put dates).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Poppy35 View Post
                    under the Housing Act there is no legal requirement for you provide notice to end a fixed term tenancy
                    Thanks Poppy! So even though I signed the contract (or agreed to 2 month notice) I am still under no obligation? Why then would we have Tenancy Agreement at all if it has no power whatsoever?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Platomey View Post
                      Three reasons:

                      1. I hadn't read your advice before submitting it
                      2. I wanted to punish my LL who was threatening me and bullying into extension of the Tenancy Agreement
                      3. I was advised on another forum to submit Part 8 as the only available option

                      Do you think it would make sense now for me to withdraw the Part 8 claim and do another one through Moneyclaim? I know I would lose £150.00 spent on Part 8 but having the prospect of sorting it out quicker is really more important for me that potential bonus of 3*deposit (which is anyway unlikely scenario now). Or is it a stupid plan?
                      I think you may still have a case for 3x.

                      Housing Act 2004 s214(1)
                      may make an application to a county court on the grounds—
                      (a)that the initial requirements of an authorised scheme (see section 213(4)) have not, or section 213(6)(a) has not, been complied with in relation to the deposit;
                      Now if I remember correctly, only the initial requirements of the DPS allow the deposit to be protected late - ie not MyDeposits.

                      I can not find the 'initial requirements' for My|Deposits, but presuming they have not been complied with then your case continues. Hopefully, someone with more experience of My|Deposits will be able to comment on their 'initial requirements'.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Platomey View Post
                        Thanks Poppy! So even though I signed the contract (or agreed to 2 month notice) I am still under no obligation?
                        Think of your first 12 month "contract" this way. ( Simplified )

                        You signed a contract to rent for 12 months, not 13 or 14 months. Your contract expires 5th May 2010. You will honour your contract and will not exceed your length of stay 1 minure over the contract. You have advised that you do not wish to extend your contract, and they knew full well that the contract ends on 5th May.

                        You are completing your contract not to rent for more than 12 months, so tell the LA / Landlord that you are abiding by the contract..

                        ( Same as if, You rent a car for 6 months, you sign a contract for 6 months, and you give it back at the end of the contract, no letters 2 months in advance needed before you return it).

                        The 1 / 2 month notice is often if you want to get out of your contract early etc, or you go past your contract final date, then you need to give the required notice.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ram View Post
                          You are completing your contract not to rent for more than 12 months, so tell the LA / Landlord that you are abiding by the contract
                          Thanks Ram! It all sounds logical to me and I will be writing to her again with the short explanation that there is no legal obligation whatsoever to give any notice (even though I don't really have to do it). However, it looks like she will want to pursue this case in court or withhold the deposit because of this. I don't think she fully understands her rights and obligations as the landlord.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                            I think you may still have a case for 3x.

                            I can not find the 'initial requirements' for My|Deposits, but presuming they have not been complied with then your case continues
                            Snorkerz,

                            Thank you very much again for your help.

                            I would like to hope that my case continues but as per Draycott v Hannells Lettings Ltd case there is now no case because the deposit was finally re-protected. I don’t think in this case the judge differentiated between different deposit protection schemes – the fact was that the deposit was protected (albeit late) so there was no case to continue.

                            I will be examining the initial requirements of My|Deposits – but do they really matter in this case?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Platomey View Post
                              Snorkerz,

                              Thank you very much again for your help.

                              I would like to hope that my case continues but as per Draycott v Hannells Lettings Ltd case there is now no case because the deposit was finally re-protected. I don’t think in this case the judge differentiated between different deposit protection schemes – the fact was that the deposit was protected (albeit late) so there was no case to continue.

                              I will be examining the initial requirements of My|Deposits – but do they really matter in this case?
                              Problem is, I am going off second hand information.

                              I believe the Draycott/Hannells went the way it did because the DPS initial requirements do not incorporate the 14 day deadline. I believe they are the only scheme of the 3 that do not specify that. IF that is correct, then there is no room for argument (the judge can not over-rule the statute - he can only interpret it if it is unclear)

                              s214(1)
                              Where a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, the tenant or any relevant person (as defined by section 213(10)) may make an application to a county court on the grounds—
                              (a)that the initial requirements of an authorised scheme (see section 213(4)) have not, or section 213(6)(a) has not, been complied with in relation to the deposit; or
                              If you have paid a deposit you can apply to the court because the initial requirements have not been met.

                              s214(3)
                              The court must, as it thinks fit, either—
                              (a)order the person who appears to the court to be holding the deposit to repay it to the applicant, or
                              (b)order that person to pay the deposit into the designated account held by the scheme administrator under an authorised custodial scheme,
                              within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the making of the order.
                              If those requirements have not been met, the court must either order a refund or protection

                              PLUS

                              s214(4)
                              The court must also order the landlord to pay to the applicant a sum of money equal to three times the amount of the deposit within the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the making of the order.
                              The court must order 3x payment within 14 days.

                              Now I am not sure what happens to s214(4) if s214(3) isn't applicable as in your case because the statute says that "The court must also" which might imply that both sanctions must apply when clearly the first can't.

                              Comment

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