Tenant bullied me into contract extension and now wont leave

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  • Tenant bullied me into contract extension and now wont leave

    Hi - I am new to this site and an inexperienced landlord

    I let my house out for 6 months through a local agent (introduction only) he assured me that he was familiar with the guarantor and there will be no problems. I sent the deposit to the DPS scheme and all was well. I never actually met the person I had the contract with but I noticed he was never there when I went to collect the rent but the house was deteriorating fast (ruined carpets, kitchen in disrepair). at the end of the 5th month I collected the rent and provided notice to the boy who was always there. I got a call from the tenant claiming that he signed a 12 month contract and to meet with him and the agent. I went to meet him and the agent didnt show up but the guarantor did. The guarantor was quite intimidating at first (telling me he has been in jail and that he knows bad people etc) then being really friendly and reassuring they requested that I give the T more time to find another place.
    So I met with them again and agreed to a 4 month contract (maximum time frame to find another place). At this point the guarantor suggested that the deposit takes many weeks to be returned and agreed that I take the deposit back (they provided the password) so I did (which now sounds like a mistake)also saying the T will go ASAP.
    The first month went by but then the second month I was not given the full rent (less 20%). I could not get hold of the tenant as he kept changing his number and went to the property a few times and kept being told it will be transfered to me which never happened.
    I had a brief conversation with the T who told me that he will not pay the last months rent and that I should take this from the deposit
    The last time I went to the property an old lady said that the T has gone to the shops and will return shortly, as I was waiting outside when I got a call from the guarantor telling me to basically go away and to call him before ever going to the property again.
    It is now approaching the last month of the contract and neither the tenant or guarantor are confirming the date the T will vacate (as the 4 months extra given should have been the maximum time)
    Having looked at the contracts the signatures are different and the signature on the credit check document is a PP signature so this too is different. Looking at the ID of the person whose name is on the contract (passport) he looks nothing like the T who claims it is him but appearance has changed due to illness)
    I dont know what to do now because I feel threatened by the guarantor
    The tenant clearly does not want to speak/ see me
    The condition of the house is quite poor now
    I need possesion of the property in order to complete the application for my little girl to get admission to the school for which I will need to provide proof of living there (i.e. council tax proof)
    And I think I made a mistake by taking back the deposit

    Please help as this is causing me sleepless nights and alot of stress!

  • #2
    Originally posted by kal1979 View Post
    I need possesion of the property in order to complete the application for my little girl to get admission to the school for which I will need to provide proof of living there (i.e. council tax proof)
    And I think I made a mistake by taking back the deposit
    My first comment is that this school issue (illegal con) you want to operate is simply not on and you lose my sympathy here right off. We were recently unable to get our child into the first/best school we wanted and accepted it. Far too much of this skulduggery goes on with second 'rented' homes.

    I canot comment on anything else now as I am too cross. Except to say you have a real nightmare up and running and it will be like this for some considerable time in my view ... and may get worse. Seek help with the law and spend out for a good lawyer asap.
    Chas.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Charles19 View Post
      My first comment is that this school issue (illegal con) you want to operate is simply not on and you lose my sympathy here right off. We were recently unable to get our child into the first/best school we wanted and accepted it. Far too much of this skulduggery goes on with second 'rented' homes.

      I canot comment on anything else now as I am too cross. Except to say you have a real nightmare up and running and it will be like this for some considerable time in my view ... and may get worse. Seek help with the law and spend out for a good lawyer asap.
      Chas.
      I second this... You will be found out schools are cracking down on this scam.
      GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

      Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

      Comment


      • #4
        I am inclined to agree with Charles on your reason for wanting the house back but it seems that you are going to suffer plenty by return.

        You should not have taken the deposit back and have sunk to the depths of your strange tenant and guarantor. With no protected deposit you cannot issue a section 21 to remove the tenant and so are a bit stuffed really. I think I would take specialist legal advice on this one.



        Freedom at the point of zero............

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        • #5
          it is not a scam, I genuinly want to move into the house now, I did not buy to let, I have been living at my parents house with my family so the rent can help with the mortgage and we can save.
          The reason we bought the house was that there is a good primary school within walking distance and this will be the first year that my child goes to school after nursery this. Big conslusion you are jumping to

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kal1979 View Post
            It is now approaching the last month of the contract and neither the tenant or guarantor are confirming the date the T will vacate (as the 4 months extra given should have been the maximum time)
            Having looked at the contracts the signatures are different and the signature on the credit check document is a PP signature so this too is different. Looking at the ID of the person whose name is on the contract (passport) he looks nothing like the T who claims it is him but appearance has changed due to illness)
            It doesn't matter who is living there, or discrepancies in signatures, the tenant is the person named on the tenancy agreement and you must follow the legal procedure to regain possession against that name.

            Firstly, serve a s.21 notice, then, if the T doesn't leave, follow up with possession proceedings. (BTW although it was stupid to return the deposit, as it has been returned, there is no longer a deposit so this won't invalidate the s.21 notice - assuming you have proof the deposit was returned).

            It is reasonably easy to DIY, however, as you seem pretty clueless, and the T appears to be very untrustworthy and relying on your naivety, I would suggest you either seek legal advice from a specialist landlord & tenant solicitor, or join up with http://www.landlordlaw.co.uk/
            They can either seek possession on your behalf or you can DIY with their help.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you Westminister
              when I say the deposit was returned, I mean it was returned to me, so I am holding this money, will that make a difference to the s. 21 notice?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kal1979 View Post
                when I say the deposit was returned, I mean it was returned to me, so I am holding this money, will that make a difference to the s. 21 notice?
                Yes. If L holds unprotected a deposit that is required to be protected, s.21 Notice procedures cannot be used.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  can I re- place the deposit into DPS and then issue a s. 21? it has been less than 3 months since I received the deposit back

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kal1979 View Post
                    Thank you Westminister
                    when I say the deposit was returned, I mean it was returned to me, so I am holding this money, will that make a difference to the s. 21 notice?
                    Yes, you'll have to protect it again and send T the prescribed information before you can serve the s.21.

                    It is essential to use the DPS. http://www.depositprotection.com/
                    The other schemes won't let you protect a deposit mid-tenancy, but the DPS will, and there is no risk of a claim for non-compliance succeeding due to a recent high court case (I won't go into why, just trust me on this).

                    And here's the prescribed information template
                    https://www.depositprotection.com/pu...agentinfo.aspx

                    Also essential to keep a copy of the prescribed information for your own records, and to get proof of posting to the tenant (a free certificate of posting is sufficient evidence, and has the advantage of the T not being able to refuse to accept delivery).

                    You see, what you may have on your hands is what is called a 'professional' tenant - one who knows and exploits the law and naive landlords, so you need to be careful to do everything by the book. It's quite possible T/guarantor deliberately persuaded you to unprotect the deposit knowing full well that you couldn't serve a s.21 notice with the deposit unprotected.

                    In your first post it sounds as if you are saying you've entered the property without the T's knowledge or consent (because you describe its condition as deteriorating and the T not there). This is highly inadvisable. If you want to inspect, get the T's permission first, in writing, and take a witness with you, to protect you against any false accusations of harassment.

                    Also read up on the landlord's repairing obligations.
                    http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...ligations.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am completing the form now and will transfer the deposit back to DPS today, the tenancy expires on the 17th of May is that the date I should use on the s.21? even though he has underpaid the rent to 17th April and indicated he has no intention of paying the rent for the last month?

                      Also do I need his permission/ password to get the deposit back when he doesnt pay the rent?

                      Thank you so much for the detailed info. Westminister

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i didnt enter the property without the T's knowledge, it was when collecting rent, getting the boiler fixed, using the loo when I noticed the condition

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                        • #13
                          any idea where I can get a s. 21 notice?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kal1979 View Post
                            any idea where I can get a s. 21 notice?
                            Most forms are available here at LZ. Click on "Agreements" at the top of the screen, then go down to "Rent arrears and eviction".
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kal1979 View Post
                              I am completing the form now and will transfer the deposit back to DPS today, the tenancy expires on the 17th of May is that the date I should use on the s.21? even though he has underpaid the rent to 17th April and indicated he has no intention of paying the rent for the last month?
                              The section 21(1)(b) notice (this being the one to serve during the fixed term) must give T at least two months' notice, so 17th May is too soon. Assuming you post the prescribed information tomorrow (first class/free certificate of posting/keep copy), leave at least a day in between before posting the notice. Because the notice isn't valid before the T has the prescribed info.

                              And, for example, if you posted the notice on Monday 12th April, allow a couple of days for posting, as the notice is deemed served at the delivery point, not when you post it.

                              So, in this example, the date of the notice would be 12th April 2010 and posted on that day first class with a free certificate of posting (again, keep copy notice for your records), but you assume it's served on 14th (or even 15th April); exactly two months from this is 13th/14th June, but better to err on the side of caution so if posted on Monday I'd make the notice expire after 15th June (i.e. after midnight on 15th June). On 16th June you could then start proceedings for possession.

                              See
                              http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...d-tenancy.html
                              Form here
                              http://www.letlink.co.uk/GeneralInfo...on/S21_1_B.pdf

                              BTW don't hand-deliver the notice unless you have a witness present (who will need to complete a form, I believe, verifying delivery - hence, easier to just get a free certificate of posting).

                              Also do I need his permission/ password to get the deposit back when he doesnt pay the rent?
                              No, you can start a dispute with the DPS or make a 'Single Claim'
                              https://www.depositprotection.com/Pu...SingleClaim#Q8

                              Thank you so much for the detailed info. Westminister
                              You're welcome.

                              Comment

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