S21 advice requested please

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  • S21 advice requested please

    I have a tenant whose AST ended on 25th March 2010.

    I was planning on issuing the S21 to her before the above date but I sadly had a miscarriage and was hospitalised so have now missed the opportunity to issue it. We do not want her to live there anymore and in all honesty, she has expressed that she wants to leave but doesn't want to evict herself because she will be deemed as making herself intentionally homeless.

    I need to know what dates I now put on the S21 in respect of what date we put on it and what date we want them to leave.

    Please do not shoot me down in flames or have go at me, its been a very stressful and traumatic 10 days.

    Thank you,
    Kelly

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
    I have a tenant whose AST ended on 25th March 2010.

    I was planning on issuing the S21to her before the above date but I sadly had a miscarriage and was hospitalised so have now missed the opportunity to issue it. We do not want her to live there anymore and in all honesty, she has expressed that she wants to leave but doesn't want to evict herself because she will be deemed as making herself intentionally homeless.

    I need to know what dates I now put on the S21 in respect of what date we put on it and what date we want them to leave.

    Please do not shoot me down in flames or have go at me, its been a very stressful and traumatic 10 days.

    Thank you,
    Kelly
    I'm sorry to hear how stressful things have been for you.

    Assuming that your T's rent is normally payable on 26th of each month, in advance (please confirm), then you have unfortunately missed the chance to serve her with a s21 (4) (a) notice to expire on or after 25th May; so before 25th April, serve one to expire on or after after 25th June. She will be liable for the rent up to that date (and after, if she does not move out). Ask her to move out on the 25th June or before (with appropriate notice to you, if she goes before the expiry of your notice.

    If she wants to go before that, you can of course agree an early surrender with her.

    Hope that helps.

    Edit: could someone just heck I have got those dates correct please?
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
      I'm sorry to hear how stressful things have been for you.

      Assuming that your T's rent is normally payable on 26th of each month, in advance (please confirm), then you have unfortunately missed the chance to serve her with a s21 (4) (a) notice to expire on or after 25th May; so before 25th April, serve one to expire on or after after 25th June. She will be liable for the rent up to that date (and after, if she does not move out). Ask her to move out on the 25th June or before (with appropriate notice to you, if she goes before the expiry of your notice.

      If she wants to go before that, you can of course agree an early surrender with her.

      Hope that helps.

      Edit: could someone just heck I have got those dates correct please?
      Thank you for taking the time to reply.

      The rent is being paid by the council, we receive the payment every 4 weeks and the next payment date is Monday 29th March which we will receive on Thursday 1st April.

      Please advise which dates I would need to use based on this information.

      Thank you again.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
        I need to know what dates I now put on the S21 in respect of what date we put on it and what date we want them to leave.
        If the tenancy was an AST in England or Wales, for an annual rent of less than £25k, which began on or after 6 April 2007; then, any deposit must be protected before any valid s.21 notice can be served.

        If the fixed period of the tenancy ended 25th March 2010, and the rent is paid monthly, then a new periodic tenancy now runs 26th to 25th of a month.

        So, the possession date on the notice must be a day which is the last day of a tenancy period, i.e. the notice may be served on any day, but must expire on the 25th of a month (last day of tenancy period), giving a minimum length of notice as two calendar months from the day on which the tenant actually receives the notice.

        If a valid s.21(4)(a) notice is served on the tenant on 29 March 2010, possession would be required after 25 June 2010 (or the 25th of any subsequent month). The expiry date should state: "after 25 June 2010".

        Make three identical copies of the s.21(4)(a), send two copies from two different post offices, and ask for a (free) certificate of posting for each. Retain the third copy of the s.21, for your own records, i.e. when the notice expires, you may need to seek possession of the property if the tenant has not vacated.


        Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
        Please do not shoot me down in flames or have go at me, its been a very stressful and traumatic 10 days.
        Sorry to hear about this. Hope it works out for you.
        The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
          The rent is being paid by the council, we receive the payment every 4 weeks and the next payment date is Monday 29th March which we will receive on Thursday 1st April.

          Please advise which dates I would need to use based on this information.
          What does the AST agreement state regarding rent payments?
          Is rent payable:
          (a) monthly?
          (b) 4 weekly?
          (c) something else?

          What date did the tenancy begin?
          What is the fixed term of the AST?
          The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tom999 View Post
            What does the AST agreement state regarding rent payments?
            Is rent payable:
            (a) monthly
            (b) 4 weekly?
            (c) something else?
            It does say monthly but this has all been thrown out because we had to wait for the council to approve her housing benefit claim so its paid every 4 weeks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tom999 View Post
              What does the AST agreement state regarding rent payments?
              Is rent payable:
              (a) monthly
              (b) 4 weekly?
              (c) something else?

              What date did the tenancy begin?
              What is the fixed term of the AST?
              The tenancy began on 25th March 2009 and it was for 12 months.

              Comment


              • #8
                Then it is monthly and the dates for the s21 are correct as given in my post #2 and Tom's #4 above.
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tom999 View Post
                  If the tenancy was an AST in England or Wales, for an annual rent of less than £25k, which began on or after 6 April 2007; then, any deposit must be protected before any valid s.21 notice can be served.

                  If the fixed period of the tenancy ended 25th March 2010, and the rent is paid monthly, then a new periodic tenancy now runs 26th to 25th of a month.

                  So, the possession date on the notice must be a day which is the last day of a tenancy period, i.e. the notice may be served on any day, but must expire on the 25th of a month (last day of tenancy period), giving a minimum length of notice as two calendar months from the day on which the tenant actually receives the notice.

                  If a valid s.21(4)(a) notice is served on the tenant on 29 March 2010, possession would be required after 25 June 2010 (or the 25th of any subsequent month). The expiry date should state: "after 25 June 2010".

                  Make three identical copies of the s.21(4)(a), send two copies from two different post offices, and ask for a (free) certificate of posting for each. Retain the third copy of the s.21, for your own records, i.e. if when the notice expires, you need to seek possession.


                  Sorry to hear about this. Hope it works well out for you.
                  Thank you for taking the time to reply.

                  The deposit is in with the DPS.

                  So, on the S21 which I am going to date 29th March 2010, I am asking to seek possession after 25th June.

                  Does that mean her moving out date is 25th June and I am legally entitled to take back the property from 26th? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, I am just trying to understand it all.

                  I want to be 100% sure that I have all the information correct before this is issued as I know she will be straight down to the council offices with it in hand.

                  Thanks again!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                    Then it is monthly and the dates for the s21 are correct as given in my post #2 and Tom's #4 above.
                    Thank you mind the gap! I am so pleased that I found this website, I truly do not know where I would have been without it!

                    Kelly

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
                      So, on the S21 which I am going to date 29th March 2010, I am asking to seek possession after 25th June 2010.
                      Yes.

                      Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
                      Does that mean her moving out date is 25th June and I am legally entitled to take back the property from 26th?
                      No. This is the s.21 notice expiry date. If the tenant has not vacated by this date, you will need to make a claim for possession of the property (using form N5 or N5B); actual possession of the property may take a further 1 or 2 months. Focus on getting a valid notice served first, and report back here for further advice.

                      Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
                      I want to be 100% sure that I have all the information correct before this is issued as I know she will be straight down to the council offices with it in hand.
                      You must ensure that a valid s.21 notice is served, as the Council's Housing officer's are likely to check this.


                      Note: If the tenant has more than 2 months unpaid rent, then you may also serve s.8 g8, 10, 11.
                      The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tom999 View Post
                        Yes.

                        No. This is the s.21 notice expiry date. If the tenant has not vacated by this date, you will need to make a claim for possession of the property (using form N5 or N5B); actual possession of the property may take a further 1 or 2 months. Focus on getting a valid notice served first, and report back here for further advice.

                        You must ensure that a valid s.21 notice is served, as the Council's Housing officer's are likely to check this.


                        Note: If the tenant has more than 2 months unpaid rent, then you may also serve s.8 g8, 10, 11.

                        Thank you so much for your latest message!

                        One other question if you don't mind.....Should I have informed the tenant of the prescribed information from the DPS? Someone on another site said I have to do this aswell before I can serve the S21. They also said that I should inform her that she is now on a periodic tenancy?

                        I don't want to bombard her with loads of paperwork but I do want to make sure that I have covered all bases.

                        Thanks again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
                          Should I have informed the tenant of the prescribed information from the DPS?
                          Yes, deposit should be protected and the tenant sent the prescribed information, before the s.21 is served; keep proof of any info. sent to tenant, e.g. certificate of posting.

                          Originally posted by Kelstar View Post
                          They also said that I should inform her that she is now on a periodic tenancy?
                          No, this is not required.
                          The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is a letter that I have typed up today with a copy of the PI....

                            Your Fixed Term AST has now expired (25th March 2010), and we do not wish to offer you a further Fixed Term.

                            Now that you remain in occupation after this date, the tenancy now becomes what is termed a Statutory Periodic Agreement which runs from one rental period to the next. All the original tenancy terms remain the same, except that we must give you two months’ notice to end the tenancy. The Notice from either party must coincide with the rental period, which will run from 26th of one month to the 25th of the next.

                            I enclose a copy of the Deposit Scheme’s Prescribed Information, in case you have mislaid the original copy sent to you on 1st February 2010.

                            Yours sincerely,

                            I'm guessing that I don't need to say all of this considering your last reply. Should I now just hand deliver a copy of the PI today and then post the S21 on Monday?

                            Sorry for all these questions tom999

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kelstar View Post

                              Does that mean her moving out date is 25th June and I am legally entitled to take back the property from 26th? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, I am just trying to understand it all.
                              Not quite. The chances are that she will move out, especially if the council have agreed to re-house her if she is served a s21.

                              However if she fails to vacate by the 26 June you will have to apply for a court order for possession and if necessary instruct bailiffs.
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment

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