Newbie Section 21 Question

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    Newbie Section 21 Question

    Evening all

    First time user here, looks like a great site. Apologies in advance if something like this has been covered before. I have tried a search but I just wanted to clarify my personal circumstances and get some advice.

    My property was let to a council tenant, this person stoppped paying rent and the tenancy agreement has now expired ( in the meantime I was being bounced around by various case workers) So here I am with a tenant I wish to evict from the property.

    I just need some clarification on what I need to do next. As I understand it we are now in a periodic tenancy, as such I need to serve a section 21 notice. The tenant may or may not comply with my S21 and in which case after 8 weeks I can apply to the court for a possesion order.

    So, if I were to serve a S21 on the 31st of March ( for example) I would have to wait until literally the 1st of June before applying to the court for possesion hearing if the tenant had not vacated the property?

    Furthermore, if the tenant just ups and leaves in the middle of the night without telling anyone ( namely me) how do I proceed, do I still need to apply to the court to cover myself?

    Many thanks in advance for any help and advice offered.

    Sam

    #2
    Originally posted by samjones View Post
    Evening all

    First time user here, looks like a great site. Apologies in advance if something like this has been covered before. I have tried a search but I just wanted to clarify my personal circumstances and get some advice.

    My property was let to a council tenant, this person stoppped paying rent and the tenancy agreement has now expired ( in the meantime I was being bounced around by various case workers) So here I am with a tenant I wish to evict from the property.if your tenant is more than 8 weeks in arrears you can apply to your local authority for them to pay the HB direct to you. Try this option first

    I just need some clarification on what I need to do next. As I understand it we are now in a periodic tenancy, as such I need to serve a section 21 notice. The tenant may or may not comply with my S21 and in which case after 8 weeks I can apply to the court for a possesion order. ok if they owe more than 2 months rent you can serve a Section 8 Notice under grounds 8, 10 and 11 which covers 2 months arreara, persistant arrears. After 2 weeks you can then apply to the court for hearing and at the time the judge will hopefully grant you possession. Its best to serve both S21 and S8 to run alongside each other as sometimes as soon as your tenant pays some money to bring the rent owed to under 2 months it may be harder to get possession but you can still get possession under S21.

    So, if I were to serve a S21 on the 31st of March ( for example) I would have to wait until literally the 1st of June before applying to the court for possesion hearing if the tenant had not vacated the property?

    Furthermore, if the tenant just ups and leaves in the middle of the night without telling anyone ( namely me) how do I proceed, do I still need to apply to the court to cover myself? if they up and leave I would consider yourself lucky. you should place a notice of abandonment on the door - do search for this. Then once you are sure that they are not living there change the locks pronto. This is assuming the house is totally empty of all of their belongings.

    Many thanks in advance for any help and advice offered.

    Sam
    you should also ensure that the deposit has been protected should this relate to an AST in England or Wales and the rent is less than £25k per annum.

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Poppy35,

      Thank you for the reply.

      The Council don't want to know in all honesty, they stopped paying HB to the tenant when they got caught working whilst claiming It's left me high and dry, I was in a situation where it was exremely difficult to get a straight answer out of anyone at the council.

      It's been 4 months since the tenancy agreement expired and now I just need this person out of the property so I can get it back.

      In this case would it be best to serve the S21 and then wait until the 1st June before starting court proceedings?

      Thanks again for the advice.

      Comment


        #4
        sorry to hear that

        get the S21 served immediately ensuring the dates are 100% correct otherwise judge will throw it out.

        Also serve the S8 - its a quicker way as you only have to wait 2 weeks before you can start proceedings rather than another 2 months minimum that you would have to wait with the S21 but please do both.

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you for the response again, Poppy35.

          Just to clarify;

          If I serve a S8, I take it it's still valid even though the tenancy expired serveral months ago? IE I don't need to have a current running tenancy agreement? Give it two weeks then apply for possession via an N5b?

          So serve the S8 and the S21

          In the meantime S21 is effectively running and should I get possession before the 8 weeks are up I have no need to go through with an N5, however if for any reason the N5b falls through I can apply for possession through an N5.

          The other thing that I just need clarifying is dates, if I serve the S21 before the end of march, leaving it until june 1st to apply for possesion will be sufficient? I know it seems like a relatively simple question but I am just making sure there is no other loophole that I need to be aware of and so long as 8 weeks notice is given it should be ok?

          Thank you very much for your patience and advice, I am new to this and whilst it maybe a drag for the resident guru's to reiterate info to the noobs or a bit of hand holding it is very much appreciated.

          Kind regards

          Sam

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by samjones View Post
            Thank you for the response again, Poppy35.

            Just to clarify;

            If I serve a S8, I take it it's still valid even though the tenancy expired serveral months ago? IE I don't need to have a current running tenancy agreement? Give it two weeks then apply for possession via an N5b?
            although the original fixed term is up, the tenancy agreement isn't, your tenant now has a Statutory Periodic Tenancy
            The other thing that I just need clarifying is dates, if I serve the S21 before the end of march, leaving it until june 1st to apply for possesion will be sufficient? I know it seems like a relatively simple question but I am just making sure there is no other loophole that I need to be aware of and so long as 8 weeks notice is given it should be ok?
            The dates on the s21 are dependant on the dates of the original tenancy agreement. If the original tenancy ended on (say) the 5th of the month, then your s21 must be for a minimum of 2 months, seeking possession "after" (use the word after) 5th of the month.

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for that Snorkerz

              I'm just going through the S21 now and as I understand it, the original agreement stated that the rent was payable in advance at the 1st day of each month. So the expiry of the original tenancy agreement was on the 31st of x month.

              Now this is when we entered into a periodic tenancy, therefore to be in with a chance of serving a S21 this month (to encompass 8 weeks expiring on the 31st of may) I must serve it before 31st March.

              If I don't serve it in time and say served it on the 1st of april I will have missed my 8 week-expire-on-the-31st window and the I could serve it on any day in april but it must expire on the 31st of June.

              Is this correct?

              Sorry for all the questions.

              Sam

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by samjones View Post
                the original agreement stated that the rent was payable in advance at the 1st day of each month. So the expiry of the original tenancy agreement was on the 31st of x month.
                Is the rent payable date the same date as the AST start date?


                Originally posted by samjones View Post
                Now this is when we entered into a periodic tenancy, therefore to be in with a chance of serving a S21 this month (to encompass 8 weeks expiring on the 31st of may) I must serve it before 31st March.

                If I don't serve it in time and say served it on the 1st of april I will have missed my 8 week-expire-on-the-31st window and the I could serve it on any day in april but it must expire on the 31st of June.

                Is this correct?
                You seem to be getting mixed up ... Perhaps if you answer the following questions, we can give you more precise answers so you get the paperwork correct:

                1. Is tenancy in England and Wales ?
                2. what date did AST start ?
                3. what was the initial term ? 6 or 12 months
                4. is current AST the only agreement signed ?
                5. was a deposit taken ?
                6. if so was it registered ?
                7. what is the rent ? is it monthly/weekly stated in AST?
                8. is T in arrears, if so how much?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by samjones View Post
                  Thanks for that Snorkerz

                  I'm just going through the S21 now and as I understand it, the original agreement stated that the rent was payable in advance at the 1st day of each month. So the expiry of the original tenancy agreement was on the 31st of x month.

                  Now this is when we entered into a periodic tenancy, therefore to be in with a chance of serving a S21 this month (to encompass 8 weeks expiring on the 31st of may) I must serve it before 31st March.

                  If I don't serve it in time and say served it on the 1st of april I will have missed my 8 week-expire-on-the-31st window and the I could serve it on any day in april but it must expire on the 31st of June.

                  Is this correct?

                  Sorry for all the questions.

                  Sam

                  Sorry to point out, but June has only 30 days and therefore it cannot expire on the 31st June!!!!!. Don't mess up the Notice.
                  Kikuyu

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by havensRus View Post
                    Is the rent payable date the same date as the AST start date?




                    You seem to be getting mixed up ... Perhaps if you answer the following questions, we can give you more precise answers so you get the paperwork correct:

                    1. Is tenancy in England and Wales ?
                    2. what date did AST start ?
                    3. what was the initial term ? 6 or 12 months
                    4. is current AST the only agreement signed ?
                    5. was a deposit taken ?
                    6. if so was it registered ?
                    7. what is the rent ? is it monthly/weekly stated in AST?
                    8. is T in arrears, if so how much?
                    Hi,

                    Thanks for the response.

                    Yes the rent payable date was the 1st of every Month and the tenancy started on the 1st.

                    In answer to your q's

                    1. Yes
                    2. 01/10/2008
                    3. 12 months
                    4. Yes - Although it expired on 31/10/2009
                    5. Yes
                    6. Yes
                    7. £450 PCM (payable on the 1st of every month)
                    8. Yes £2077 (450x12=5400 5400/52=103.85 103.85 x20 =£2077)

                    Thank you

                    Sam

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by kikuyu View Post
                      Sorry to point out, but June has only 30 days and therefore it cannot expire on the 31st June!!!!!. Don't mess up the Notice.
                      Thanks for pointing that out

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Presuming the rent is paid monthly, it is a minimum of two months, not 8 weeks, to end on the last day of the month in your case.

                        I have been advised on this forum that a s21 served on 1st April would be valid for a s21 due to seek possession after 31st May 2010 (1st of April to 31st May inclusive being 2 months), however I would prefer to say get it served by 31st March.

                        The easiest way to prove it has been served is to send 2 copies by ordinary 1st class mail on Monday 29th March, from separate post offices, obtaining free certificates of posting. The court will accept this as proof of service the following day. DO NOT send by recorded delivery, as this can be refused and send your service date past the 1st.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Snorkerz, thank you very much for your reply. I shall post it out tomorrow with the above dates.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by samjones View Post
                            My property was let to a council tenant
                            No, it wasn't. You are not a local authority; so your tenant is a private-sector tenant.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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