No Guarantor Form - is Guarantor liable?

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    No Guarantor Form - is Guarantor liable?

    You may remember some weeks ago I posted a thread regarding a Guarantors liabilty if she gave notice of withdrawing and I got several very useful answers - basically telling me that she was ... (my queries are in bold)

    However ... I have since requested, from the Agent who lets and manages the property, a copy of the Guarantor Form and all documents signed by the guarantor saying that I needed them to show the Housing Dept in my claim for re-housing ... and lo! and behold there was no Guarantor Form. Only a very short and ambiguous clause on the AST and her signature on the first and last pages of the AST. They also confirmed verbally that there was no Guarantor Form.

    I understand from other posts on here that without a separate Guarantor Form, her guarantee is not legally enforceable. What I need to know now is:

    Does anyone know how I can prove this to the LL/Agent without having to go to Court i.e. is there a legal precedent set down for this or is it mentioned anywhere in any legislation?

    I would prefer for it not to get to Court for arrears unless I absolutely can't help it but I need to subtly point this out to him without ruining the otherwise good relationship that we have enjoyed so far.

    Another query: the AST depost clause states " If a deposit is paid it shall be retained by the LL or teh LL's agent as security for performance of teh tenants obligations and shall be reapyable to the tenant only after the end of the tenancy and then without interest and after deduction thereform of any sum required to compensate the LL whether wholly or in part for any breach of obligation on the Tenants part".

    As this does not secifically mention arrears, can the LL rightfully hold back the deposit against arrears, (if any).

    Many thanks in advance of receiving the usual helpful and knowledgable replies !!!
    Last edited by pippay; 08-06-2006, 18:03 PM. Reason: adding another query
    Any information or opinion given in this post is based only on my personal experience, what I have learned from this, other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person. E&OE

    #2
    Originally posted by pippay
    You may remember some weeks ago I posted a thread regarding a Guarantors liabilty if she gave notice of withdrawing and I got several very useful answers - basically telling me that she was ... (my queries are in bold)

    However ... I have since requested, from the Agent who lets and manages the property, a copy of the Guarantor Form and all documents signed by the guarantor saying that I needed them to show the Housing Dept in my claim for re-housing ... and lo! and behold there was no Guarantor Form. Only a very short and ambiguous clause on the AST and her signature on the first and last pages of the AST. They also confirmed verbally that there was no Guarantor Form.

    I understand from other posts on here that without a separate Guarantor Form, her guarantee is not legally enforceable. What I need to know now is:

    Does anyone know how I can prove this to the LL/Agent without having to go to Court i.e. is there a legal precedent set down for this or is it mentioned anywhere in any legislation?

    It is incorrect to refer to a 'Guarantor Form' What we are discussing here is the need for a valid and binding 'Guarantor Agreement' The guarantor should write to the Landlord and Agent repudiating any liability in respect of claims in connection with the tenancy by "x" of "define property". The reason for repudiating this liability is that you have received legal advice that the signature of the guarantor on the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement does not constitute a valid Guarantee Agreement. This letter will be filed as evidence should any claim be made against the guarantor.

    Let the Landlord and Agent do the worrying about checking the case law!!!


    I would prefer for it not to get to Court for arrears unless I absolutely can't help it but I need to subtly point this out to him without ruining the otherwise good relationship that we have enjoyed so far.

    You cannot maintain good relationships if one person feels they are owed money and the other person denies that the money is owed. Certainly if you need to point out the guarantors rights as I suggested above I cannot see that you can do so in both a forceful and subtle manner. You cannot have the best of both worlds

    Another query: the AST depost clause states " If a deposit is paid it shall be retained by the LL or teh LL's agent as security for performance of teh tenants obligations and shall be reapyable to the tenant only after the end of the tenancy and then without interest and after deduction thereform of any sum required to compensate the LL whether wholly or in part for any breach of obligation on the Tenants part".

    As this does not secifically mention arrears, can the LL rightfully hold back the deposit against arrears, (if any).

    The Landord or Agent should set out in writing the extent of the arrears of rent or the damages done to the property and state whether they are holding the entire or part of the deposit against such debts (or if the amount of damages exceeds the the deposit). If the tenant disagrees and cannot negotiate a satisfactory settlement then the only way forward is for the tenant to issue a County Court claim

    Many thanks in advance of receiving the usual helpful and knowledgable replies !!!
    ....................................
    Vic - wicked landlord
    Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
    Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.

    Comment


      #3
      Forgot a question

      Thanks for this and your reply on the other similar post .. I didn't get any replies so I thought I'd split the questions and see what happened.

      You've certainly made things much clearer for me especially when you mentioned the word "Deed" in the other post.

      As for the possible arrears, I have forewarned the LL that I MAY experience financial difficulties in a month or so due to a deterioration in my health and my susbsequent care needs and if I end up in arrears then I will do my best to pay him back - but it would have to be over an extended period. Ultimately it is up to him if he wants to end my tenancy sooner rather than later to avoid a debt situation, given that the Guarantor will now be repudiating any claim against her.

      You suggest that she writes to the Landlord and Agent but I do not have the Landlords address .. Should she send one to him c/o the Agent or can she (or I) ask for the landlords home address?

      Many thanks for your help, Wildlife !!



      Originally posted by Worldlife
      Originally Posted by pippay
      You may remember some weeks ago I posted a thread regarding a Guarantors liabilty if she gave notice of withdrawing and I got several very useful answers - basically telling me that she was ... (my queries are in bold)

      However ... I have since requested, from the Agent who lets and manages the property, a copy of the Guarantor Form and all documents signed by the guarantor saying that I needed them to show the Housing Dept in my claim for re-housing ... and lo! and behold there was no Guarantor Form. Only a very short and ambiguous clause on the AST and her signature on the first and last pages of the AST. They also confirmed verbally that there was no Guarantor Form.

      I understand from other posts on here that without a separate Guarantor Form, her guarantee is not legally enforceable. What I need to know now is:

      Does anyone know how I can prove this to the LL/Agent without having to go to Court i.e. is there a legal precedent set down for this or is it mentioned anywhere in any legislation?

      It is incorrect to refer to a 'Guarantor Form' What we are discussing here is the need for a valid and binding 'Guarantor Agreement' The guarantor should write to the Landlord and Agent repudiating any liability in respect of claims in connection with the tenancy by "x" of "define property". The reason for repudiating this liability is that you have received legal advice that the signature of the guarantor on the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement does not constitute a valid Guarantee Agreement. This letter will be filed as evidence should any claim be made against the guarantor.

      Let the Landlord and Agent do the worrying about checking the case law!!!


      I would prefer for it not to get to Court for arrears unless I absolutely can't help it but I need to subtly point this out to him without ruining the otherwise good relationship that we have enjoyed so far.

      You cannot maintain good relationships if one person feels they are owed money and the other person denies that the money is owed. Certainly if you need to point out the guarantors rights as I suggested above I cannot see that you can do so in both a forceful and subtle manner. You cannot have the best of both worlds

      Another query: the AST depost clause states " If a deposit is paid it shall be retained by the LL or teh LL's agent as security for performance of teh tenants obligations and shall be reapyable to the tenant only after the end of the tenancy and then without interest and after deduction thereform of any sum required to compensate the LL whether wholly or in part for any breach of obligation on the Tenants part".

      As this does not secifically mention arrears, can the LL rightfully hold back the deposit against arrears, (if any).

      The Landord or Agent should set out in writing the extent of the arrears of rent or the damages done to the property and state whether they are holding the entire or part of the deposit against such debts (or if the amount of damages exceeds the the deposit). If the tenant disagrees and cannot negotiate a satisfactory settlement then the only way forward is for the tenant to issue a County Court claim

      Many thanks in advance of receiving the usual helpful and knowledgable replies !!!
      Any information or opinion given in this post is based only on my personal experience, what I have learned from this, other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person. E&OE

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by pippay
        <snip>
        You suggest that she writes to the Landlord and Agent but I do not have the Landlords address .. Should she send one to him c/o the Agent or can she (or I) ask for the landlords home address?

        Many thanks for your help, Wildlife !!
        I can only quote Paul_f on this one:-
        Under S.1 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 the tenant can request in writing that name and address of the landlord to be provided within 21 days of such a request, but it might not be an address in England & Wales, just the actual address of where the landlord normally resides which could be abroad. This request could be served at the address as stipulated in the S.48 Notice which of course must be an address in England & Wales.
        Get the guarantor to send you a letter addressed to the landlord.

        Then write to the agent stating you do not know the address of the landlord but enclosing the letter addressed to the landlord with a copy of it for their information. Ask the agent to confirm the letter has been forwarded to the landlord.

        State in accordance with the above section of the 1985 Act you are asking that the name and address of your landlord is required by you for future contact purposes.
        Vic - wicked landlord
        Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
        Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.

        Comment


          #5
          Name and address of landlord

          Read the above advice with reference to Landlords address on tenancy agreement - Barrister's opinion

          That thread deals with Section 1 of the Act and this thread deals with Section 48 of the Act.
          Vic - wicked landlord
          Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
          Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.

          Comment

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