Awkward cotenant

[NeddyB]

But niether the Landlord or I would be doing anything wrong...

This is what i was really trying to find out, that if I end the tenancy agreement, the landlord can then start a new tenancy agreement with whoever he chooses.

[westminster]

But niether the Landlord or I would be doing anything wrong...

This is what i was really trying to find out, that if I end the tenancy agreement, the landlord can then start a new tenancy agreement with whoever he chooses.

Yes, of course he can.

[westminster]

Maybe the other tenant will simply leave, you can judge that for yourself, but if they choose to be difficult then a court case may be the only option left. I just wonder if the landlord would be willing to go to that much trouble, and just how it would look to a judge who finds that neither tenant wants to go and the landlord is really planning to force just one to leave?

The only way NeddyB can get out of the situation is by giving notice, and that notice will inescapably end the joint tenancy. He doesn't have the option of just leaving, and letting the woman 'keep' the flat, because he'd remain liable for rent.

Do you have a better, alternative idea?

[Mars Mug]

There’s always the option to leave things as they are since they rarely meet, but it seems to me that the real incentive is to get a friend in rather than a problem sharer out. Nothing I have posted is intended to be an ‘idea’, just pointing out possible problems, should I not be doing that?

But niether the Landlord or I would be doing anything wrong...

This is what i was really trying to find out, that if I end the tenancy agreement, the landlord can then start a new tenancy agreement with whoever he chooses.

I’m not suggesting that anyone is doing anything wrong, just pointing out that if the other tenant chooses to exercise their rights then things could be a tad more difficult than you might think. Will the landlord be willing to go to court if necessary to get the other tenant out?

[NeddyB]

Mars mug - appriciate where your coming from, and granted my housemate will probably be as akward about things as she can (I wouldn't of thought she'd take it to court but I guess you never know....)

Will the landlord be willing to go to court if necessary to get the other tenant out?

Well he has no choice but to accept my notice, the real issue is whether or not he would be willing to let me re-sign. So basicaly I'm relying on him not wanting to loose a good tenant, and from his point of view a willingness to sign on and garentuee his income ought to be enough incentive. It's deffinatly a risky strategy, but a route I'm willing to take

[Mars Mug]

Only you are in a position to judge how the other tenant might respond, I’m not able to.

You say the other tenant does not want to leave, they may ask the landlord if they can stay, they may look for another person to share with.

The other tenant may not want to go to court, but they have no control over when you give notice and your notice period might not suit them in terms of finding another place and moving, with all the costs involved, so they may well drag their heels.

If they do stay beyond the notice period then because it is you who has given notice I’m not sure on what grounds the landlord could take you to court? If the landlord does not take you to court, and the other tenant stays beyond the leaving date, then so do you. If the landlord really wants to play along with the plan then he may need to issue notice to you both to quit. I think it has the potential to get very messy depending on the reaction of the other tenant, and any advice they might be given.

I understand what you are saying about the landlord not wanting to lose a good tenant, but I don’t see that as the problem, I see the potential problem being how do you actually get the other tenant to leave if they really don’t want to?

[westminster]

I just wonder...how it would look to a judge who finds that neither tenant wants to go and the landlord is really planning to force just one to leave?

There’s always the option to leave things as they are since they rarely meet, but it seems to me that the real incentive is to get a friend in rather than a problem sharer out. Nothing I have posted is intended to be an ‘idea’, just pointing out possible problems, should I not be doing that?

No, of course it's worth pointing out pitfalls and it wasn't a criticism, it's just that I don't see what other option NeddyB has in the circumstances - living with someone you dislike is a nightmare.

Nor do I agree that the LL's response is inevitably going to be negative. Obviously not his problem if the tenants don't get on, but in LL's position I'd be realistic and understand that giving notice was the only available option for NeddyB as opposed to gritting his teeth for the foreseeable future. Especially given that NeddyB's been there for 3 years without any other problems.

If NeddyB gets LL fully on-side, a better option might be for the LL to issue notice, as the woman T may take that more seriously.

Either way, if the woman decides to be uncooperative, LL would have no alternative but to evict both in order to clear the field to create a new tenancy, whether that's with NeddyB and a new co-tenant, or completely different tenants (and I doubt a judge would either ask or care about what LL intends to do after regaining possession, nor would it have any bearing on LL's legal right to regain possession).

Consider alternative scenarios. T1 plays music at full volume every night (and LL gets constant complaints from neighbours), whereas T2 is as quiet as a mouse. Or T1 never pays their rent and T2 always pays on the nail (obviously T2 liable for all the rent as well, but from LL's POV he'd know who's the reliable payer). LL would have to evict both in order to get rid of one.

[westminster]

I understand what you are saying about the landlord not wanting to lose a good tenant, but I don’t see that as the problem, I see the potential problem being how do you actually get the other tenant to leave if they really don’t want to?

It's a pointless question because NeddyB can't 'get' the other tenant to leave. Only the LL can apply for possession and go on to enforce a possession order.

[Mars Mug]

It's a pointless question because NeddyB can't 'get' the other tenant to leave. Only the LL can apply for possession and go on to enforce a possession order.

The point of the question (which was intended to be rhetorical), and everything else I've said, is to highlight that even though the ending of the contract might be legal and correct things may not go too smoothly. If NeddyB is made aware how the other tenant could respond then there’s still opportunity to re-consider plans. But as I said, only NeddyB can gauge the likely reaction from the landlord and other tenant.

Either way, if the woman decides to be uncooperative.

The issue here is what many people, including the OP, would consider to be an underhand way to force someone out of their home, someone who has already stated that they do not wish to leave.

We have very little contact, but when we do - she is very rude towards me...

With very little contact I don’t see it as a nightmare scenario. This still suggests to me that the real reason for wanting her out is to get a mate in.

[westminster]

The issue here is what many people, including the OP, would consider to be an underhand way to force someone out of their home, someone who has already stated that they do not wish to leave.

I don't think it's particularly underhand, and a periodic joint tenancy is about as insecure as it gets with ASTs. Either tenant can give notice to end it at any time (as can LL).

Honest, non-'underhand' way: NeddyB tells woman he intends to give notice to end the tenancy. He tells her he has already agreed a deal with the landlord to begin a new tenancy when this one ends, and that LL will pursue eviction proceedings if necessary.

I don't really see how her knowing the whole truth would change anything? She could, I suppose, try to negotiate a deal separately with the LL (in an underhand way), but she's free to try to do that anyway, and good luck to her.

With very little contact I don’t see it as a nightmare scenario. This still suggests to me that the real reason for wanting her out is to get a mate in.

Many years ago, I was in a houseshare situation with no control over the other tenants. After several months of happy, carefree occupation, one day I came home to find someone I already knew (we were both acquainted with the landlord) had been installed in the adjoining bedroom. I literally couldn't stand this person; he made my skin crawl. Of course, I avoided him as much as possible, and succeeded. But regardless of how little contact I had with him it was still impossible to live in the same house, knowing I might walk out of my room and encounter him on the stairs, or coming out of the bathroom. I was also uncomfortable just knowing he was in the room next door. I left very soon afterwards.

Your home is the one place you don't want the outside world affecting. I can totally understand why NeddyB can't stand living with someone who is rude even on the rare occasion they bump into each other.

[Preston]

I think I am with the OP and Westminster on this one.

There is no obligation on joint tenants to be joint tenants for ever. If the "relationship" has run its course, it seems quite reasonable to me to end it.

[Mars Mug]

There is no obligation on joint tenants to be joint tenants for ever. If the "relationship" has run its course, it seems quite reasonable to me to end it.

Yes, but there's better ways to go about it.

Honest, non-'underhand' way: NeddyB tells woman he intends to give notice to end the tenancy. He tells her he has already agreed a deal with the landlord to begin a new tenancy when this one ends, and that LL will pursue eviction proceedings if necessary.

I'd go with that option.