Section 8 or 21(4)(a) or both?/

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Section 8 or 21(4)(a) or both?/

    Forgive me if this has been posted before but I need some help??

    I have a tenant that has occupied my property for the last 4yrs, they have been persistantly late in paying their rent, have never set up a SO or DD as they have incured charges for insufficient funds previously. They have also breached their terms on the grounds of subletting to students, having pets in the property to name but a few. I have given notice 4 weeks ago to terminate the tenancy agreement, 10 days before this is up they have now written to me stating that they have no intention of leaving (even though they have texted stating they would vacate the property prior to the termination date) and now in order to get them out legally they want an eviction notice from the courts!!

    Do I serve a Section 8, a Section 21(4)(a) or both?

    Due to personal circumstances and other pressing matters, I only have a signed AST for 12 months dated 15th July 2007 which has now obviously lapsed and therefore the tenant is now on a periodic AST.

    Any help would be gratefully received.
    Thanks

  • #2
    Please confirm, is the tenancy in England/Wales with rent less than £2,083.33 pcm?

    Did T pay a deposit and is it protected in a scheme?

    Is rent due monthly, and what date was the last day of the fixed term signed in July 2007?

    Comment


    • #3
      Tenancy is England/Wales with rent less than £2083.33 pcm
      T paid a deposit but prior to the new protected scheme
      rent due monthly on the 15th of the Month
      date fixed term signed was 17/09/07.

      Comment


      • #4
        Rent due and AST start dates are not necessarily the same. What date did the AST start 15th or 17th?

        For an AST start of 15/09/07, and fixed period of 12 months, the fixed term ended 14/09/08 and the SPT started 15/09/08.

        1. You can issue S21(4)(a) giving at least 2 months notice. So if issued today 09/03/10 or anytime up to 12/03/10 (allowing 48 hours for posting), the effective date would be AFTER 14/05/10, which is 2 clear months ending on the last day of the period of the tenancy. See Serving S21.

        2. To get mandatory possession with the S8 route, you would need to use one of the 8 mandatory grounds (1-8), particularly on ground 8-2months/8 weeks of unpaid rent. See Serving S8. The remaining grounds 9-17 are discretionary grounds, and you are unlikely to be granted possession. However, LL usually serve S8 on grounds 8, 10, 11 so that if T brings the level of unpaid rent down to less than 2 months, it is still possible perhaps for judge to grant suspended possession order.

        Have a look at the serving S8, to see which grounds would apply, in relation to the conditions that you think may have been breached.

        Comment


        • #5
          Grounds 11, 12 & 17 have been breached on the tenancy agreement, at present T seems to know that if she was in rent arrears then possession order would be granted, however she has made sure that her rent has now been brought upto date, even though she is still late in paying it. No quick solution by the looks S21 it is!!

          Thanks for your help.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mugwart99 View Post
            I only have a signed AST for 12 months dated 15th July 2007
            T paid a deposit but prior to the new protected scheme
            date fixed term signed was 17/09/07.
            Do you mean the fixed term was signed 15th July 2007 or 17th September 2007?

            What was the LAST day of the fixed term?

            Deposit protection began on 6th April 2007. If you received a deposit and did not protect it, a s.21 will not be valid.

            Comment


            • #7
              Original tenancy agreement was issued on 15th July 2006 for a 12 month period, therefore prior to the new deposit protection system. On expiry of the 12 months, a further agreement was drawn up for continuation for another 12 months(15th July 2007). Last Day of the fixed term would have been 15th July 2008, since then I have assumed that the tenancy just rolled onto a periodic tenancy month to month and did not re-issue a continuation of contract to her for another 12 months.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mugwart99 View Post
                Original tenancy agreement was issued on 15th July 2006 for a 12 month period, therefore prior to the new deposit protection system. On expiry of the 12 months, a further agreement was drawn up for continuation for another 12 months(15th July 2007). Last Day of the fixed term would have been 15th July 2008, since then I have assumed that the tenancy just rolled onto a periodic tenancy month to month and did not re-issue a continuation of contract to her for another 12 months.
                Yes, it's a periodic tenancy. But if the renewal for 12 months started on 15th July 2007, it should have ended on 14th July 2008? It's important to get this right, as a s.21 notice in a periodic tenancy has to expire/seek possession after the end of a rental period. The periods begin on the day after the fixed term ends. So, in your case, if the last day was 14th July, then the periods would run 15th - 14th of the month.

                However, I'm afraid you need to protect the deposit before you can issue a s.21. Use the DPS, not one of the two other schemes, i.e. TDS & mydeposits (this is essential).

                See this thread for further info on a pretty similar situation to yours, and for why you need to use the DPS.
                http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=26660

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you are getting the rent paid at least, depite being persistently late, better to protect T's deposit and issue s21. This might have the effect, though, of T not paying at all, or paying small amounts if they are clever, in the knowledge that they will have to leave eventually. Be on your guard to collect rent payments on time, and serve S.8 if they happen to get over two months in arrears. This is based on my experience.

                  Comment

                  Latest Activity

                  Collapse

                  • Mouldy silicone wear and tear?
                    aciduzzo
                    Tenants are moving out today and i am doing the final inspection later; however, last time i was at the flat i noticed the bathroom was in a poor state.

                    What is the general opinion on black mould that has formed inside bathroom silicone? Is it considered wear and tear? Also, the seal...
                    03-07-2017, 08:07 AM
                  • Reply to Mouldy silicone wear and tear?
                    mystic08
                    You might like to gift your new tenants some Kilrock mould cleaner which is magic in a bottle! Cheapest in the Pound shop or The Range but supermarkets sell it too. Works brilliantly on algae too. Garden pots, patios, headstones etc.
                    22-07-2017, 20:52 PM
                  • Discussion - GDPR and implications on landlords
                    MrShed
                    I've just posted something on GDPR and then wondered whether it had been discussed on here before - a quick search implies its never been mentioned.

                    I thought I would raise a topic to discuss it and the implications on landlords.In effect this is a replacement of the Data Protection Act...
                    20-07-2017, 15:01 PM
                  • Reply to Discussion - GDPR and implications on landlords
                    jjlandlord
                    That's the exemption that allows sending data outside of the EEA, which is the issue discussed.



                    No, because of that very exemption....
                    22-07-2017, 19:19 PM
                  • Referencing question
                    kangoo1
                    A couple wants to rent from me, she is on maternity leave and will not be returning to her previous employment, he is permanently employed and moving due to a job transfer. I have referenced him for the full rent and his guarantor has been successfully referenced.
                    I am going to prepare the ast...
                    22-07-2017, 17:19 PM
                  • Claiming for protected deposit
                    mandm
                    This is an interesting one, got me into a spin.
                    Tenants signed AST but decided to leave after 6 months and 3 days (problem with moving) using the break clause in the AST. I protected the deposit using DPS (Insured) and returned the deposit minus deductions when the moved out.
                    I served the...
                    21-07-2017, 08:00 AM
                  • Reply to Claiming for protected deposit
                    JK0
                    I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to get into one of JPK's interminable arguments.
                    22-07-2017, 16:28 PM
                  • Reply to Discussion - GDPR and implications on landlords
                    jpkeates
                    That's simply one of the Schedule 2 exemptions which, if met, allows a process using personal data at all - all the other principles still apply in parallel (where it can be stored, be not excessive, kept up to date etc).

                    So, while it might be OK because it relates to a contract, there...
                    22-07-2017, 15:22 PM
                  • Excessive estate agent fees
                    Cml241
                    I have a property which I started renting out via an agency. When the contract started, they found new tenants, did the relevant checks etc and charged an upfront fee which equates to approx one month's rent. As one year has almost passed, the agent has approached me asking if I want them to 'renegotiate'...
                    21-07-2017, 16:26 PM
                  • Reply to Excessive estate agent fees
                    mariner
                    A new 12 month fixed term does provide LL & T with extra security but can lead to complications for either if their resp circumstances/legislation change during the new AST.
                    Personally, I would prefer if a orig AST was for a fixed 6 month term, followed by an SPT that required both LL &...
                    22-07-2017, 14:09 PM
                  Working...
                  X