Earliest date to start repossession and who pays?

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  • Earliest date to start repossession and who pays?

    I correctly served s.21 to my T 05/02/10, it expires 23/04/10.

    T said they will leave 23/04/2010 but I don’t trust T and I do want to ensure T leaves on the 23/04/2010. What is the earliest I can start a repossession order, what does it cost and how will the costs be dealt with, I’m happy to pay the cost for the order, but will T fight the order in any event so to avoid paying costs?

    Many thanks for your help.
    Stephen

  • #2
    Originally posted by stephenenglish View Post
    I correctly served s.21 to my T 05/02/10, it expires 23/04/10.

    T said they will leave 23/04/2010 but I don’t trust T and I do want to ensure T leaves on the 23/04/2010. What is the earliest I can start a repossession order, what does it cost and how will the costs be dealt with, I’m happy to pay the cost for the order, but will T fight the order in any event so to avoid paying costs?
    Court fees can be found here - so it will cost £150. You can submit your paperwork on 24/04/2010... 'trust' has nothing to do with the matter - if the tenant is still there on that day you do it, but if they leave you won't need to.

    Assuming you are successful, you will be awarded costs (but it will still be down to you to extract them from the tenant). If you have done everything right, there's no 'defence' against an S21; but anyway just 'fighting' the order won't stop the tenant from having to pay up.

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    • #3
      And I assume that any (protectable from 6/04/07) deposit was correctly protected - if not, your S21 notice is invalid!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by stephenenglish View Post
        I correctly served s.21 to my T 05/02/10, it expires 23/04/10.

        T said they will leave 23/04/2010 but I don’t trust T and I do want to ensure T leaves on the 23/04/2010.
        Please be aware that there is no legal way of ensuring T leaves on 23 April. As Eric says, if they are still there on 24 April, all you can do is apply for a possession order. That will not be instantaneous; it takes several weeks.

        Prepare for a siege if necessary (not literally! ).
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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        • #5
          T has surprised me today (06/03/2010) by sending an email saying:
          “To let you know the rent is paid up until the 24th of this month. I will be vacating the property on that date.”

          I understood he legally has to give me at least one months notice on or before 23rd of the month if wishing to vacate the following month, how will this affect me regarding taking (earlier) possession.
          Anyway I’m happy T is leaving, but how should I now respond?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by stephenenglish View Post
            T has surprised me today (06/03/2010) by sending an email saying:
            “To let you know the rent is paid up until the 24th of this month. I will be vacating the property on that date.”

            I understood he legally has to give me at least one months notice on or before 23rd of the month if wishing to vacate the following month, how will this affect me regarding taking (earlier) possession.
            Anyway I’m happy T is leaving, but how should I now respond?
            Don't push your luck! T does not have to give you notice if you have served him a s21! You have told him your require possession as of 24 April and that is exactly what he seems to be offering you.

            Be happy. Keep your fingers crossed that he vacates.

            Then move on.
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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            • #7
              Actually, MTG, I think the tenant would need to give notice if they wished to end the tenancy earlier than the date given in the S21.

              I think he owes you another month's rent.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by asquithea View Post
                Actually, MTG, I think the tenant would need to give notice if they wished to end the tenancy earlier than the date given in the S21.

                I think he owes you another month's rent.
                Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking it was April already!

                (Wishful thinking).
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by asquithea View Post
                  Actually, MTG, I think the tenant would need to give notice if they wished to end the tenancy earlier than the date given in the S21.

                  I think he owes you another month's rent.
                  Assuming the T vacates on 24/03/2010 and leaves the keys, as the s.21 does not expire until 23/04/2010 how long after can I ask for an order from the court to re-enter and take possession of property? Could I use the grounds of Abandonment and non-payment of rent?

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                  • #10
                    If you're happy to accept early surrender, that's unnecessary.

                    Ideally, you'd get them to sign a properly drawn up deed of surrender. At the very least, get their surrender in writing, signed by both parties, with a witness.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stephenenglish View Post
                      Assuming the T vacates on 24/03/2010 and leaves the keys, as the s.21 does not expire until 23/04/2010 how long after can I ask for an order from the court to re-enter and take possession of property? Could I use the grounds of Abandonment and non-payment of rent?
                      Please state on what precise date the AST began and the precise length of its fixed term.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by asquithea View Post
                        If you're happy to accept early surrender, that's unnecessary.

                        Ideally, you'd get them to sign a properly drawn up deed of surrender. At the very least, get their surrender in writing, signed by both parties, with a witness.
                        T informed the agent they would move out Saturday 20/03/10. I passed by the property and the removal van was being loaded. I followed the van to see if items were going in storage, they appear to have gone to a residential area. I did not follow too closely.

                        T sent an email to me saying he would drop the keys into the agent on 24/03/10, as “the rent is paid until then”. In fact rent is only paid until 23/03/10.

                        T refuses to give me or agent forwarding address, but I’m sure I could find this with some investigation.

                        The agent said they will get T to sign a surrender document when he gives up the keys.

                        T has sent a threatening email telling me that if I attempt to withhold deposit or see me anywere near again he would deal with me personally! He also questioned heating oil levels originally supplied and if the septic tank really was empty at beginning of tenancy.

                        I secured a CCJ two weeks ago for unpaid utilities that had been in my name, he says he having it set aside and now has a signed affidavit from a neighbour who had seen me entering property without consent and removed the Hoover that is part of the property fixtures and fittings. I asked T to report this to police as it was not me.

                        The s.21 expires 23/04/2010. If T just surrenders the keys 24//03/10 and refuses to sign any documents can I apply immediately for a possession order on the grounds of abandonment, as it appears not T main home anymore?

                        Should I obtain an injunction because of the threats? I’ve telephoned the local police who dealt with the Hoover theft and informed them of the threats.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                          Please state on what precise date the AST began and the precise length of its fixed term.
                          You say giving notice to quit 23rd April.
                          1. On what date did the original fixed term begin?
                          Agreement was made on 20th June 2009
                          Term commencing 24th June 2009
                          Expiring 23rd December 2009
                          2. How long a fixed term did you grant?
                          Six calendar months
                          3. Was rent payable monthly in advance during it?
                          Rent payable in advance on the 24th of each month
                          4. Was the Notice served during the fixed term or after its expiry?
                          Served after on 5th February 2010
                          5. Was the Notice under s.21(1)(b) or s.21(4)(a)?
                          Under s.21(4)(a)
                          6. What was the precise wording of the Notice's text: 'on 23 April' or 'after 23 April'?
                          I used the s.21 notice available from the Landlord Zone;

                          Date of expiry of this notice
                          April 23rd 2010

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK- so a s.21(4)(a) Notice served on 5 Feb. should have set a Notice period expressed as:
                            a. up to and inc. 23 April; or
                            b. requiring possession after 23 April.
                            [but not 'on 23 April'!]
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                              OK- so a s.21(4)(a) Notice served on 5 Feb. should have set a Notice period expressed as:
                              a. up to and inc. 23 April; or
                              b. requiring possession after 23 April.
                              [but not 'on 23 April'!]
                              Exact wording was:
                              Date of expiry of this notice (see below)
                              April 23rd 2010

                              Tenants and landlords please note.
                              • On or after the end of a fixed-term assured shorthold tenancy a court must make an order for possession if the landlord has given notice in writing under the shorthold ground (Section 21).
                              • The landlord does not need to give any reason for requiring possession.
                              • Where there are joint landlords, at least one of them or their agent must serve the notice.
                              • Where there are joint tenants, it is preferable that each tenant be served notice.
                              • The notice should be served in person or through the letter box or by first class post – keep a copy and record the date and time, who served the notice (any witness), and proof of postage.
                              • Fixed-term (S21(1)b) The length of the notice must be at least two months, and the notice must be served before or on the day on which the fixed-term comes to an end.
                              • Periodic Tenancy (S21(4)a) (i.e. where the tenant has stayed-on after the expiry of the fixed term) a notice can be served after the fixed-term has ended specifying a date after which possession is required being the last day of a period of the tenancy (usually the day before a rent payment day) and not earlier than two months after the date the notice was given.
                              • Periodic Tenants – the landlord requires possession after the date stated in this notice or at the end of the period of your tenancy which will end next after the expiration of 2 months from the service upon you of this notice.
                              • If you as tenant do not know your rights after you have been served a notice requiring possession see a solicitor, the Citizen’s Advice Bureau or your local authority rent officer.

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