L's right of access for inspection or viewing?

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    I've seen plenty of references to case law where a landlord has applied to court for, and got, an order to gain entry. Does anyone know of any cases where a landlord has been successfully sued / prosecuted for enforcing access against the tenants wishes?

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      Originally posted by elniinio View Post
      I've seen plenty of references to case law where a landlord has applied to court for, and got, an order to gain entry.
      I'm sure that this is common.
      Any link to any of these case law?

      Comment


        I can see that what I wrote wasn't clear. I mean I've seen references on this forum to there being case law for landlords gaining orders for access. I haven't actually seen the case law myself and don't have any links.

        What I haven't seen on here (or elsewhere) is references to a landlord being sued / prosecuted for forcing access.

        I think this whole thread/argument is very interesting, even where it is perceived to be academic or theoretical. I'm trying to understand how theoretical some bits are. Let's say I am a tenant and have changed my locks and refused access to the landlord and his agents. And let's say the landlord forces access anyway, but having complied with what he thinks is his right as documented in the TA. The majority opinion here (which I share) seems to be that this is 'a bad thing' and not recommended, but has anyone actually ever done this and been charged with/ found guilty of something? I think if there was some case law, it might help settle some views.

        Comment


          Well actually if you are under separate contracts it may be just the rooms you are renting, in which case he can enter the house, but not your rooms.*
          If you are all renting the whole house then he has no rights to enter without giving 24 hours notice.*
          I think common courtesy would apply regardless on which part of the home you rent,*
          My very first landlady did the same with us, solution, lock front door with key, turn key clockwise whilst in lock, and leave, he won't be able to have access, and you can always claim security or just forgot

          Comment


            What is the situation in this sort of case- my tenants had a huge party, more like a rave, with about 100-120 people, according to my neighbours. They hired professional, very powerful sound equipment and it went on till 8am. Unfortunately my neighbours texted me rather than called so I slept through all the trouble but had to dash there in the morning in a panic to see if my property was okay and see what i could do re damage limitation. I stopped off at the agents, because it was by now 9am so they were open, and they advised me not to let myself in because in that case, if I wanted to evict them, having entered without prior notice or permission I might not be able to get them out. I thought this was crazy, my tenants went way over the top, their friends were spilling out all over the street all night etc.. Luckily the damage was not major but I wondered where I stood if this happens again and I need to check my property is in one piece. (I decided not to evict them to avoid them feeling they had nothing to lose and destroying my neighbours peace even more by having non-stop parties for two months until they left.) If tenants behave in a wholly irresponsible way, overcrowd a property, create a huge nuisance and there is a danger from lit cigarettes etc do I not have the right in the middle of the night to go in and check the place is safe, not being trashed etc and- even- pull the plug off the music if it can be heard all the way down the street and all the neighbours are demanding I sort it out?
            This was a terrible experience and one I wish to avoid in the future so I'd like to know where a reasonable landlord stands when faced with this situation. What if tenants do a Facebook party and a mountain of people turn up? Can the landlord not enter, seriously? (My tenants aren't dangerous, just incredibly selfish and inconsiderate- ((naturally I didn't know that before))

            Comment


              Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
              ...according to my neighbours.
              They're not your neighbours.

              Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
              ...destroying my neighbours peace even more...
              They're not your neighbours.

              Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
              ...all the neighbours are demanding I sort it out?
              Your neighbours (sic) complain to the Tenants, not you. You are their Landlord, not their parent. If your neighbours (sic) don't get any joy then they must go via appropriate channels, not via you.

              Hope that helps... sit back and enjoy life.

              Comment


                No, unsurprisingly, it doesn't help. Anyone with something constructive to say, please go ahead!

                Comment


                  Unless you are in Scotland, Hippo is right... (as usual!)

                  Advise anyone concerned, if you really want to, to follow the very good advice here...
                  http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...r_disputes.htm

                  Otherwise, stay out of things...

                  Cheers!
                  I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
                    No, unsurprisingly, it doesn't help. Anyone with something constructive to say, please go ahead!
                    You're wrong.

                    The tenant's neighbours are not your neighbours.
                    What were you going to do when you got there, close down the party?
                    Evict the tenant?

                    What you seem to think of as "your" property is currently owned by someone else.
                    Who is, just as you could, at liberty to have a loud party.
                    If someone wants to complain, they should complain to the tenants.
                    How do your neighbours even have your contact details?

                    What does your tenancy agreement say about parties, or right of access in the event of a party?
                    Without that, you have the normal rights of a landlord, you can request access with 24 hours notice for specific reasons.

                    I am conscious that you may not find this sufficiently constructive, so...
                    It would benefit you greatly to learn about being a landlord before being one.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
                      No, unsurprisingly, it doesn't help. Anyone with something constructive to say, please go ahead!
                      Hi, I was trying to be constructive, although maybe in a pithy way. What I'm saying is that you are too involved, and where you need not be. It's not your responsibility to get involved in everything... there's enough Landlords are responsible for, after all.

                      Comment


                        I'd like to know where a reasonable landlord stands when faced with this situation. What if tenants do a Facebook party and a mountain of people turn up? Can the landlord not enter, seriously?
                        The above is the question.

                        A landlord does not have any right to enter unless it is a term of the tenancy. Few rights are implied by law and those that are relate one way or another to repairs. In the absence of something specific to cover the above sitaution ,which would be unusual and quite possibly unenforceable, a landlord has no right to enter when a tenant is holding a party.

                        Comment


                          My tenants neighbours are my neighbours in my opinion. In a block full of buy to lets, for example, landlords are now required to take responsibility for the tenants they dump in there and their impact on other residents. Very reasonable in my opinion and far too long in coming. I take responsibility for mine and impact on neighbours is important. Tbose of you who feel it's fine to put tenants in and then not give a monkeys about how they behave or upset others- I'm simply glad I'm not like you.

                          What on earth do you mean by "why do the neighbours even have your number?" Why shouldn't they?

                          I am not convinced anyone is right here, if someone was to invite an over-large amount of people to my property and, for example, they started breaking sanitaryware or something I don't think it can be the case that a landlord cannot enter, it would be an emergency. Enter, or face £1,000's in damage, I think any reasonable person would say enter and protect your property

                          Thank you to all who responded, I think we're just not on the same page..

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
                            In a block full of buy to lets, for example, landlords are now required to take responsibility for the tenants they dump in there and their impact on other residents. Very reasonable in my opinion and far too long in coming.
                            What - exactly, please - are you referring to here? I am very curious.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
                              My tenants neighbours are my neighbours in my opinion. In a block full of buy to lets, for example, landlords are now required to take responsibility for the tenants they dump in there and their impact on other residents. Very reasonable in my opinion and far too long in coming. I take responsibility for mine and impact on neighbours is important. Tbose of you who feel it's fine to put tenants in and then not give a monkeys about how they behave or upset others- I'm simply glad I'm not like you.
                              Your tenant's neighbours are simply not your neighbours, other than in some vague social sense that we are all neighbours. Using emotive language like "dump" doesn't really help.
                              Landlord's do have additional responsibilities for dealing with anti-social behaviour compared with several years ago, but they are essentially geared towards local authorities and housing associations. Private Landlords can't use most forms of corrective action except eviction.
                              Making people homeless often moves them from the private rental sector into social housing, which most local authorities don't want.

                              If a landlord declines to act, the local council can enforce matters.
                              What on earth do you mean by "why do the neighbours even have your number?" Why shouldn't they?
                              Personally? Because I don't want calls from people who are not my customers because someone I rent a house to has put grass in the recycling bin again.
                              Someone having a single very noisy party isn't anti-social behaviour (while one a week might be!)

                              I am not convinced anyone is right here, if someone was to invite an over-large amount of people to my property and, for example, they started breaking sanitaryware or something I don't think it can be the case that a landlord cannot enter, it would be an emergency. Enter, or face £1,000's in damage, I think any reasonable person would say enter and protect your property
                              As a landlord you do have the right to enter in the case of an emergency.
                              Destroying sanitary-ware may be an emergency, there's no definitive list of what constitutes an emergency.
                              However, you can't enter simply in case someone's destroying sanitary ware.
                              Did anyone actually cause any damage during the party?

                              What would you actually do faced with several rooms full of 100-120 rowdy people, send them home? What if they decline to leave?
                              If it's a breach of the peace, the neighbours should involve the police, as anyone else's involvement is likely to inflame matters.

                              While you still have some rights, at the point in question it is the tenant's property, not yours. A point you would be arguing strongly if they were doing something illegal there, for example.
                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by sarflondon1 View Post
                                My tenants neighbours are my neighbours in my opinion. In a block full of buy to lets, for example, landlords are now required to take responsibility for the tenants they dump in there and their impact on other residents. Very reasonable in my opinion and far too long in coming. I take responsibility for mine and impact on neighbours is important. Tbose of you who feel it's fine to put tenants in and then not give a monkeys about how they behave or upset others- I'm simply glad I'm not like you.

                                What on earth do you mean by "why do the neighbours even have your number?" Why shouldn't they?

                                I am not convinced anyone is right here, if someone was to invite an over-large amount of people to my property and, for example, they started breaking sanitaryware or something I don't think it can be the case that a landlord cannot enter, it would be an emergency. Enter, or face £1,000's in damage, I think any reasonable person would say enter and protect your property

                                Thank you to all who responded, I think we're just not on the same page..
                                Part of the problem here is that, as sometimes happens, a specific question is not answered and advice is offered which, though it may be thought useful or relevant to the questioner, is not what the questioner wants to know. Another problem is that, in respect of the question asked, the questioner is being given answers he does not like. Put the two together and it can all get fraught.

                                As jpk points out in his last post there are two aspects to this.

                                The first is the strictly legal. Whilst the emergency angle could apply, there is no right to enter a tenanted property for any purpose other than one provided for by the terms of the tenancy.

                                The second is the practical. What can you actually do when a party is in full swing?

                                Comment

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