Notice (s.21) may be invalid or lost

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  • Notice (s.21) may be invalid or lost

    i have been told my section 21 may be invalid issued around 27 dec o9
    here is the contract

    Shared house agreement

    Start Date of tenancy 11 oct 09
    Between:-
    (1) LL
    and
    (2) craig XXXXXX and caroline YYYYYY

    1. DEMISE
    Various rooms with shared facilities within

    with the furniture and effects listed in the attached inventory and which the parties agree are in good condition unless otherwise stated in the said inventory (“effects”)

    The tenant may end this agreement by one month’s written notice and the Landlord may end it by giving one month’s written notice...


    3. RENT AND OUTGOINGS
    The Tenant(s) each of them jointly and severally agree to pay.

    3.1 Rent by monthly instalments of £ per month in advance and pay interest at the rate of 4 per centum per annum above the base rate from time to time of Natwest bank plc on any rent in arrears for more than fourteen days calculated from the date upon which such rent was due to be paid to the date upon which it is actually paid.

    3.2 All Charges for gas , electricity, phone, internet, broadband, water, sewage , council tax, tv licence and any tv facilities such as sky supplied, rented and or used to the property during this tenancy.

    3.3 all payments made into




    4. TENANTS COVENANT / UNDERTAKINGS

    The Tenant must:

    4.1 occupy the property personally and not assign sub-let share or part with possession nor permit use or occupation by anyone else not in paying guests or lodgers and not to carry on any professional trade or business. Unless agreed with LL

    4.2 keep the property and the effects clean including cleaning of windows .

    4.3 report any damage loss or malfunction to mr pj brookman

    4.4 The tenant may also use the washing machine, fridge, freezer, cooker but the maintenance and replacement of these items will be tenants responsibility

    4.5not cut down remove or otherwise injure any tree shrubs or plants growing upon the premises or to alter the general character of the garden and throughout the whole of the tenancy to cultivate the garden in a reasonable manner according to the season of the year, minimum requirement being to keep lawns mown .

    4.6Leave the property all appliances and the effects clean and free of rubbish at the end of the tenancy and all effects in position as identified on the inventory and hand over all keys to the property.

    4.7Keep sufficient heat in the property to prevent damage from frost.


    4.8 Not damage (fair wear and tear excepted) or remove from the property any of the effects and replace with similar articles of at least equal value any of the effects damaged or destroyed.

    5. RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS

    The Tenants must not

    THAT IS THE FIRST PAGE
    just to confirm -is all of this correct

    1.i issue 2 section 21 notices one for each tenant -correct?-- different surnames- i think i issued just one originally .
    2. this is a periodic ast so i need s21 4a ---correct ?

    thanks in advance
    phillip

  • #2
    1. What is a 'shared house agreement', anyway?
    2. Was the letting for a fixed term (length?)
    3. If not, was it contractually periodic from the very start?
    4. Is L resident too?
    5. Does the rate of rent exceed £25 000 per year?
    6. Was any deposit paid and, if so, was it protected by L?
    7. Did the s.21 Notice mention s.21(1)(b) or s.21(4)(a)?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


    • #3
      shared house agreement is a wrong term --
      i do not live there .
      letting was not for a fixed term--
      set up on a basis of see how we go
      less than 25k
      part deposist paid by t and in scheme and with prescibed info given to t

      i need to asertain that this is a periodic tenancy so i can give the correct s21 notice
      and if i need to issue 2 section 21 as the t are of different surnames

      Comment


      • #4
        1. If you created a contractual periodic tenancy, as I think you seem to have done, you can serve under s.21(4)(a).
        2. Each letting is treated separately. If you let part to A and part to B, individual Notices are needed.
        3. Each Notice should set a 'possession' date of:
        a. at least two months from date of service; plus
        b. up to & inc. next rent-month end.
        4. If the letting began on 11 Oct. 2009 and rent falls due on that day each month, a s.21(4)(a) Notice served today- 19 Feb.- could demand possession 'after 10 May'.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


        • #5
          Please clarify, is there only one tenancy agreement, with several names on it as 'the Tenant' and the address of property as the whole house, or does each tenant have a separate tenancy agreement for a room in the house?

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes- is the letting to 'Craig' and 'Caroline' the only letting and does it relate to the whole property?
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


            • #7
              yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

              so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --correct

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
                yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

                so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --correct
                No, if Craig and Caroline have just one joint tenancy then you need just one notice. The notice must describe the tenancy accurately, so if it is a joint tenacy then both tenants names should be on the notice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Preston View Post
                  No, if Craig and Caroline have just one joint tenancy then you need just one notice. The notice must describe the tenancy accurately, so if it is a joint tenacy then both tenants names should be on the notice.
                  I agree. Whatever a 'house share agreement' is supposed to be, this isn't one! Instead, it's a simple single letting of the whole house to two people as joint tenants. Any Notice from L is therefore addressed to both of them and served on both of them.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

                    so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --is this correct...

                    and the dates are important too 2 months lear i believe
                    many thanks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
                      yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

                      so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --is this correct...

                      and the dates are important too 2 months lear i believe
                      many thanks
                      No. You need one Notice and it's under s.21(4)(a). Address it to both joint tenants; serve it on both.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
                        yes there is only one letting of the whole house to craig xxx and caroline yyyyy these are common law man and wife i think --or partners and their family

                        so from what you are saying i need 2 x section 21 s4a one issuing to each one --is this correct...

                        and the dates are important too 2 months lear i believe
                        many thanks
                        ONE LETTING THEREFORE ONE NOTICE. Both/all tenants' names on the one notice. Keep a copy of the notice and post another copy addressed to the tenants. It is essential to get proof of posting, and keep it together with the copy of the notice, in order to prove the notice was delivered. A free certificate of posting will suffice, especially if it's possible that tenant may refuse receipt of a signed-for delivery, or neglect to collect it from the sorting office if tenant is out when delivery is attempted.

                        Jeffrey has previously explained how to work out the expiry date of the notice.

                        Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                        3. Notice should set a 'possession' date of:
                        a. at least two months from date of service; plus
                        b. up to & inc. next rent-month end.
                        4. If the letting began on 11 Oct. 2009 and rent falls due on that day each month, a s.21(4)(a) Notice served today- 19 Feb.- could demand possession 'after 10 May'.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          i cannot find my copy of the section 21 issued to tenants --their solicitor has the original.
                          can i get it or a copy from their solicitor -i need to clarify details and very soon start the next stage.
                          thanks all

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
                            i have been told my section 21 may be invalid issued around 27 dec o9
                            Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
                            i cannot find my copy of the section 21 issued to tenants --their solicitor has the original.
                            can i get it or a copy from their solicitor -i need to clarify details and very soon start the next stage.
                            thanks all
                            If you mean the s.21 notice which "may be invalid" then why do you need a copy - to see whether you accidentally got it right?

                            Just serve a valid one. And this time don't lose your copy or the proof of delivery. You won't get very far with getting a possession order if you can't prove you served valid notice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              section 21 is about to expire what do i need to do then which forms
                              which method to use is best
                              pcol
                              and the merits of which route and downsides
                              there is also 1800 of outstanding rent to collect
                              thanks all

                              Comment

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