Effect of s.21 Notice if deposit is unprotected?

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  • Effect of s.21 Notice if deposit is unprotected?

    I am a first timer please be gentle with me!

    I have tried to read some of the really useful information posted on these threads but just too many variables to work out for myself so I would be grateful if some one would take me under their wing a bit and steer me in the right direction. Here goes...

    Bit of background

    Have never met landlord deal with useless letting agents they charge me a management fee (HA!) Moved in April 09 agents seemed a bit lax but thought they would do at least the legal minimum and was nice to be left in peace.

    July a letter hit the mat re morgage repossion immediately called everyone cab, council, useless agents even morgage company and solictors as you know they wouldn't tell much but got a little info out of the indepentant that came and knocked on OUR door!! long and short is that I was told all a mix up (and I'm the easter bunny) but after that I was distrusting and I realised didn't have tenacy agreement back from agents who had been going to get landlord to sign then send to us (we had signed and moved in in a rush you see) Anyway we managed to get that after like a month of asking as landlord still hadn't signed.
    As I thought we were going to be repossed any moment I remembered I should have had a letter or similar re deposit and asked about deposit agents said landlord had protected as they gave him money and basically handed over responsiblity they said landlord would give them detail and they would let me know.
    I waited and waited so reminded them of 14 days and they said all casually its ok cause you can get 3x amount back which I knew but was not the point. I decided they were morons and would sort out when I had the time.
    Now suddenly recieved proof of service for notice requiring possession by section21 all becomes important again (lots happened inbetween we had a flood not our fault also a total fiasco with agents and I had a baby)

    basically me, my partner, my 2 year old and new 12 week old baby want to know whos ass to sue as all 3 schemes have no record of deposit am waiting for the confirmation in writing only have verbal, I read in agreement that "tenant shall pay the deposit as specified in the "particlulars" to the landlords agent, as agent to the deposit such deposit money will be held in designated account etc" later it says landlord obligations he agrees to register deposit in 14 days etc.
    I have read a lot about if he does register it late, ie. now, that it will be ok and in others that it wont, is it worth suing for the money it would be really useful for moving costs etc but how much hassel is it as have the new baby time is valuable too, whats the general opinion on likelyhood of sucess

    also isn't section 21 notice invalid cause of all this? and not sure but what about the wierd date they have given, does it have to be from rent day or day or move in not just a random 2 month date?

    sorry didn't mean to make so long I see why others posts are the same now,
    any advice appricated alot

    btw have now done a written request to agent and landlord for info on deposit.

  • #2
    Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post

    Have never met landlord deal with useless letting agents they charge me a management fee (HA!)
    Are you saying you pay a monthly fee to them as T? You should only be paying your rent and nothing else to them!!

    Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
    basically me, my partner, my 2 year old and new 12 week old baby want to know whos ass to sue as all 3 schemes have no record of deposit am waiting for the confirmation in writing only have verbal,

    btw have now done a written request to agent and landlord for info on deposit.
    Did you give a timeframe/limit on getting a response?

    Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
    I have read a lot about if he does register it late, ie. now, that it will be ok and in others that it wont, is it worth suing for the money it would be really useful for moving costs etc but how much hassel is it as have the new baby time is valuable too, whats the general opinion on likelyhood of sucess
    Can't tell you how much hassle it is, as I don't know. Question to you is how much hassle you are prepared to go to to sue for 3x deposit. You can decide that after you received the LL's response to your letter requesting info. If you don't get a response back, then you should write a LBA and let LL/LA know you intend to sue them both.


    Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
    also isn't section 21 notice invalid cause of all this? and not sure but what about the wierd date they have given, does it have to be from rent day or day or move in not just a random 2 month date?
    If deposit not protected, then S21 is invalid.

    What exact date did the tenancy start and what is the fixed term 6 or 12 months? if you are still in the fixed term, then its a straight 2 months, otherwise, the exact dates matter!

    Comment


    • #3
      I pay £25+vat every 6 months to agents admin fee for management they call it

      6 months is the contract that was up october 20th we moved in april 20th date on s21 is 26th march I was asking so I can see if possible to get till april 20th if we need to like if can't find anywhere new in budget (might save on canx cost for contracts with phone line etc)

      7 days time frame found a template letter on a site

      sounds like s21 will be invalid

      I will let you know about responses as I get them
      also I'm going to sound stupid but does lba stand for letter back again or am I way off?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
        I pay £25+vat every 6 months to agents admin fee for management they call it
        That is not for you to pay. Is it a contract term? It is an unfair one in my view. The LL should be paying management fee, not T. You should be claiming that back from them or the LL, but stop paying it!!

        Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
        6 months is the contract that was up october 20th we moved in april 20th date on s21 is 26th march I was asking so I can see if possible to get till april 20th if we need to like if can't find anywhere new in budget (might save on canx cost for contracts with phone line etc)
        Tenancy is SPT=Statutory Periodic Tenancy. Your rent period runs from 20th of one month to 19th of the next. Therefore, LL should give S21(4)(a)notice, such notice to become effective on the 19th of a month, at least least two months after the date it was served on you. so if served today 03/02/10 or anytime up to 20/02/10, the effective date will be 19/04/10.

        Lilkewise, if you give notice, you need to give at least one months notice to end on 19th of the month.

        Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
        sounds like s21 will be invalid
        Unless there is a proof of deposit protection, it is invalid. Write to the LL/LA and tell them that. And quote the relevant section of the statute:
        Housing Act 2004, S215
        (1) If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when—

        (a) the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

        (b) the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

        (2) If section 213(6) is not complied with in relation to a deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy until such time as section 213(6)(a) is complied with.


        Originally posted by rebecca.483 View Post
        I will let you know about responses as I get them
        also I'm going to sound stupid but does lba stand for letter back again or am I way off?
        Letter Before Action. It is important to ensure you do that, to give them the opportunity to rectify the problem. If they fail to do so, then you can take action.

        Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          thanks I will redraft to include your legal quotes in the letter am going to hand deliver today.

          I might save the point about the dates as I don't want to confuse them, but you would have thought they would know these things.

          I don't think I will have to pay another fee as the next one would be on the 20th april it was written in the holding deposit /bond receipt - subject to contract that we signed. it calls it a renewal fee there but they didn't give us new contract we went on to the periodic tenancy.

          Anyway like I said thanks you have been a real help

          Comment


          • #6
            Given your posts above, I would strongly suggest that you go along to the Citizen's Advice Bureau and tell them what's happened and ask them to draft the letter for you.

            Comment


            • #7
              have spoken with cab briefly on phone their time is like gold dust they said about writting the letter to ask as they are not responding to me when I ask verbily and said to say I had taken advise etc like I say i found a template i altered w...nus.org.uk/PageFiles/3080/Deposit_Recovery_Pack.pdf

              Comment


              • #8
                lots happened landlord admitted to letting agent not protected deposit which i knew anyway.

                letting agents saying nothing to do with them cant sue them as landlords responsiblity yet I handed my money to them and have never spoken seen my landlord.

                I asked what had happened to the deposit I gave them They also showed me how they bill landlord at start of tenancy and it basically showed that out of my deposit and months rent in advance etc they take their fees then give landlord change say £50 and he has to protect deposit out of his money, then get this they say "otherwise we might not get paid our fees" I say so how the ***! was he going to put £600 in a deposit protection scheme, surely they are way way in the wrong negligent is a word that springs to mind.

                looks like LL is up the proverbial creek with out paddle letting agent say he all but said he is broke so looks like wont be able to pay if claim for 3x off of him but he could be spinning a yarn so I figure worth a shot

                have been advised that letting agents have no duty of care to me therefore deposit as have no contract with them tenacy agreement is signed by LL seems absolutley mad you think go through agent cause it is safer than dealing direct with LL as could be harder to enforce repairs sort problem etc
                so can you claim 3x from agents? I saw a post about a case and they lost is it possible to claim against them as they would be the ones with money it looks like.

                basically I see it as agents took my deposit and never gave it to LL used it to pay their fees so "stole" it I was told could go to ombudsman about them to get compensation possibly but not to do with deposit just to do with all the things they have done wrong like paying £25 for nothing and not giving us our contract for 4 months which I now see why they didn't want to sign on behalf of landlord as was told if they had then I could claim against them. they are sneeky.

                I hope someone can advise on whether
                1, if I can claim against LA
                2, I was told to not pay last months rent as would be throwing good money after bad and claim against LL then when went to court this would be taken off what he would owe me

                would just like to point out that I am not trying to be money grabbing but I feel after all then cost and hassell of phone calls, trips to office, worry and time spent thinking and researching that I ought to get something back as I have done nothing but try to be a good tenant and they should pay for breaking the law /stealing my money

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by havensRus View Post
                  The LL should be paying management fee, not T.
                  The LL may very well be (as well)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Note that under the s.212(9)(a) of the Housing Act 2004, which states:

                    "references to a landlord or landlords in relation to any shorthold tenancy or tenancies include references to a person or persons acting on his or their behalf in relation to the tenancy or tenancies"

                    the LA is liable as if he were the LL. So yes, you could issue proceedings against the agent if you have a right of action against the LL for non-compliance with TDS requirements.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      after speaking to a few people I think I will name the agent as second defendant, as it seems it can't make things worse.
                      I have seen a few posts about x3 deposit claims being fast track claim rather than small claims is this the case?
                      any help gratefully received

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        could anyone point me in the right direction about claims ie fast track multi track small claims etc

                        I see it is possible to claim against LA now high court ruling unsure how much of the rest will apply to me as have not moved out offically until 20th March

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          type of claim for non protection of deposit

                          I need to claim as landlord has not protected my deposit and we are moving out before he gets repossessed/sells or whatever.

                          I am a bit confused as have read conflicting info but is a claim for not protecting deposit allocated to small claims fast track or multi track?
                          and/or is there a link that might answer what to expect/do regarding relevent type of claim.

                          Also in my complex situ I technically have care of the property until 20th March although will be out before this date is there a benefit to handing in claim after 20th or is it better to do it asap?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Moderator: please merge with OP's previous thread.

                            Rebecca: Better to claim during the tenancy. And as you know, you can claim against LL or agent - or even both.

                            Claims must be issued on form N208 and should be allocated to the multi-track. Be aware of the risks; court fees are high and you are exposed to the defendant's legal costs, even if you discontinue the claim. Therefore, it's advisable to obtain legal advice before issuing such a claim.

                            See http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2009/05/...or-tds-claims/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Two separate threads by same member have been merged here. Do not cause problems by starting continuation threads; use the same one.

                              Comment

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