Shower Problems

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    #16
    Originally posted by mckenziek View Post
    As for interpreting the HA regulations, I would have to agree that the shower is a "sanitary convenience". It doesn't matter if there's a bath as well because the regulations don't say one or the other but clearly "baths and sanitary conveniences"
    No; 'sanitary conveniences' means toilets.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by mckenziek View Post
      I've asked if i were to do that if she would put back in the original shower, which i think is more than reasonable given I would pay to change the fuse over and technically that's the shower I paid for when I moved in! Do people think this is a reasonable action to expect her to do? Does anyone have any suggestions if she still refuses to do this?
      My advice would be to leave as soon as is possible.
      This landlady does not sound like someone who is going to do right by you.
      Today its this problem, tomorrow it will be something else, but you'll get the same response from her, if she can get away with it.

      She sounds petty and mean and your safety maybe in jeopardy because of the state of the electrics (and who knows what else).

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
        Sanitation: as basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences are expressly mentioned, I read it that showers aren't.
        Expressio unius excludere alterem, as we say in the biz.
        Originally posted by westminster View Post
        Hmmm, but what if there isn't a bath (not unusual these days)?
        Originally posted by TenantsLuvMe View Post
        I am wondering if the insertion of the word "including" in the above sentence means that there are other things not mentioned in this category which are also part of the category, such as showers?

        It could be that when this law was defined, showers were not that common?
        The fact is that Parliament specified four types of thing. Omission of others points towards their being outside the scope of s.11.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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          #19
          Maybe, but for me, its yet another grey area in this overly complicated property business that if tested, would find in favor of the shower being included as a fitting that the LL should maintain.

          After all, its no different to a bath - just that water is through a different point and the shower serves the same purpose as a bath.

          Comment


            #20
            A shower is no different from a bath in its purpose, I agree, but purpose is not what the section concerns! Yes, a test case might hold what you hope to be the case; but I hope that it's not at your expense! Why not ask your MP to try a Private Member's Bill to amend s.11?
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by mckenziek View Post
              Wow thanks for all the comments people!

              I spoke to the landlady again and she again refused to pay to have the ciruit board replaced. It so happens that in the mean time I did some more searching and found a few places that do stock the old style of fuse at 40A so i might be possible for me to get an electrician to fit that fuse and check that everything is ok.

              I've asked if i were to do that if she would put back in the original shower, which i think is more than reasonable given I would pay to change the fuse over and technically that's the shower I paid for when I moved in! Do people think this is a reasonable action to expect her to do? Does anyone have any suggestions if she still refuses to do this?
              You should not be paying for anything connected with the electrical wiring in the property.

              I would, firstly, contact the environmental health officer at the council, re the ancient and possibly unsafe fuseboard, as well as the lack of shower.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                Why not ask your MP to try a Private Member's Bill to amend s.11?
                Are you sure though that they will be able to tear themselves away from their daily task of finding ways to screw the taxpayer, fiddling and inventing their "expenses" and going to meetings/speeches for the sole purpose of sleeping, or doing something like the MEP's - signing in and then going home.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Many will do much to procure voters' favours (what a shower!) Their wives, too, but only in Northern Ireland?
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I think the most worrying thing here is the dodgy electrics.

                    Was the original shower fairly new - if so, I doubt a properly qualified electrician would have fitted it knowing that the fuse could not take the load. And all new electrical "installations" require to be certified by a fully qualified electrician and this obviously did not happen. And was the correct wiring used to connect this high power shower to the consumer board?

                    I wish to install an electric shower, but because of the distance between shower and consumer unit, the cost is likely to be excessive because of the cable required.

                    As to OP's query, in practical terms I don't think you can do anything to force LL to put back the old shower but I cannot actually see why she would not if you have been able to sort the fuse problem.
                    Mrs Jones
                    I am not an expert - my posts are my opinion and should not be taken as fact!!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by mckenziek View Post

                      The landlady is saying that she's not willing to pay for anything because " there is a working shower". My arguments are:

                      1) Is it really a working shower if the only way to wash your hair is to rest your head against the shower unit because the flow is so bad?

                      Thanks
                      Yes, the shower is working, but the rate of flow isn't great.

                      Do you know how to wash your hair in either
                      - the wash basin
                      - the bath tub?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        London joke
                        Q: What's the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
                        A: You can't wash your hair in a buffalo.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Jeffrey. Why do you consider that an electric shower is not covered by

                          (c) to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwelling-house for space heating and heating water
                          It is an installation, and it heats water.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Telometer View Post
                            Jeffrey. Why do you consider that an electric shower is not covered by



                            It is an installation, and it heats water.

                            I think, perhaps, its is because:

                            1. A shower's primary purpose isn't to heat water.
                            2. Perhaps electric showers were rare/luxury/unknown of when the relevant law was defined.

                            Comment

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