Responsibility for bleeding a radiator?

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    Responsibility for bleeding a radiator?

    After much chasing and a lot of time having passed since we moved out our LL has finally given us receipts/invoices/quotes for the various damages he alleges we did to the property.

    A long standing point of dispute we have had with him is regarding the necessity of the boiler needing to have been bled.

    We acknowledge that the oil did run low, however we had heating in the house up to the point when we shut everything off and handed the keys over to him. Thus it was questionable in our minds as to the necessity of having the boiler bled.

    Now that we have the receipts I am furthermore angered in that I feel that the invoice he has provided for said service is entirely fradulent, perhaps made up for him by one of his other contractor buddies in a hope to eek money out of us.

    The invoice has no header and looks like one you could proabably buy out of a pack. It has a date of 7.11.09... more than two weeks after we moved out of the property. In the from section it has only a name. In the to section it has the LL's name. Nothing in the VAT reg'd. No section. On it it simple has the following written...

    Re. Property name, town name

    For bleeding oil line and re-setting boiler after oil tank had been ran out.

    Total owing
    90.00 pounds.

    Now when I looked over and checked the date on the oil delivery receipt from GOFF (something didn't sit right with me on this and here's why) it says that oil was delievered on 9.11.09!!!

    Am I right in thinking that a boiler could not be bled and restarted if there was, as our ex-LL insists no oil left in it? I think I've caught our LL red handed in trying to fraudulently con us out of our deposit.

    While I'm on the topic of the validity of his receipts... if one is for flooring should it not give measurements and type of flooring to be laid?

    On an invoice for painting (which he says was done but I have reason to believe it actually wasn't) should there be a break down of costs, date the painting was done, etc?

    I'm really thinking this guy is trying hard to take us for everything.

    #2
    Originally posted by AngelofSol View Post

    While I'm on the topic of the validity of his receipts... if one is for flooring should it not give measurements and type of flooring to be laid?

    On an invoice for painting (which he says was done but I have reason to believe it actually wasn't) should there be a break down of costs, date the painting was done, etc?
    Sorry, I know nothing of the technicalities of the boiler question.

    But as for the rest, was there a check-in inventory carried out? i.e. does LL have any evidence to support his claims for deductions?

    Also, LL is not entitled to 'betterment' - so, if you caused damage to an old carpet, resulting in it needing to be replaced, LL would not be entitled to the full cost of the new carpet, only a portion.

    Comment


      #3
      There was a video recorded check in, but no sort of written or video recorded check out was done.

      I know all about betterment so we're good there.

      Right now I'm worried about the fraudlent nature of what I highly believe to be forged invoices. I'm almost 100% percent that one is completely forged.

      This makes me angry and I'm wondering if I should report this to someone and if so to whom? I am tempted to use it as a bargaining chip but that hardly strikes me as right or ethical.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by AngelofSol View Post
        I'm wondering if I should report this to someone and if so to whom? I am tempted to use it as a bargaining chip but that hardly strikes me as right or ethical.
        If you dispute the deductions then the next step would be to raise a dispute with the deposit scheme (though I seem to remember the deposit may not be protected and you're already claiming for this??)

        Comment


          #5
          No, that's about the only thing that this LL has handled correctly. The deposit has been fully protected. It's just taken him a month and a half to get us anything substantive concerning the amount he wishes to withhold and why.

          We have tried to manage this reasonably and in due time whereas he has not and not with this forced invoice it just raises my hackles. It seems he has no intention to deal with us honestly and fairly.

          I suppose with these in hand if I simply push it to adjudication as I have been doing (or court if he disagrees) then I have blatant evidence of forgery in at least one instance and that should look quite well in our favor.

          I guess I'll have to look elsewhere to see if I can get confirmation of my suspicion that you don't bleed a boiler before you put oil in it (seems to defeat the purpose).

          Comment


            #6
            If the tank was empty, then it couldn't have been bled until it was refilled. If there was any oil left in the tank, then bleeding would have been unnecessary.The job should have taken a minute and, IMHO the invoice for this work is ridiculous!

            P.P.
            Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

            Comment


              #7
              Generally the man who comes to put oil in will bleed it for you...

              Comment


                #8
                Responsibility for bleeding a radiator?

                I've managed to completely confuse myself with legislation, so thought that this friendly forum could help me out!

                Our tenants have rented our property for 18 months, and have notified our letting agent (who manage the property on our behalf) that one of the radiators 'isn't working'. This time last year they did the same thing: it needed bleeding.

                Last year the tenants claimed that they didn't know how to bleed a radiator. Therefore last year we agreed with the letting agent that we would pay for a contractor to bleed the radiator on the condition that the tenant would be present and learn how to do it themselves. Our letting agent agreed that this was very reasonable of us and told the tenant of the agreement and conditions.

                Now the issue has risen again and the tenant is claiming they are 'unable' to bleed the radiator. My wife and I feel it is unreasonable to expect us to pay for a contractor to bleed the radiator for them again, especially as we paid for one last year on the understanding that the tenant would learn how to do under last year's heating engineer's guidance.

                The contract through the letting agent says the tenant is responsible for keeping the property properly heated, and that we are responsible for the structure of the property and keeping water, gas and electricity installations in good repair. Many "whose responsibility?" documents I've read online from councils say that tenants are responsible for bleeding the radiators in rented property. However, I've read on the The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 Section 11 that it is the landlord's responsibility "to keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the dwellinghouse for space heating and heating water."

                Is bleeding a radiator our responsiblity or our tenants?

                All advice gratefully received!
                Ed

                Comment


                  #9
                  The tenant's, I'd say. It is part of behaving in a tenant-like fashion, like changing a light bulb or a tap washer. Do not pay a contractor to show them again. To be honest, I would have have expected the agent to go round and show them, if Ts are as clueless as all that. What do you pay him for?
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Sounds like you have taken very sensible steps to teach the tenant how to bleed a radiator.

                    I bet they’ve lost the radiator key. Tell the tenant to go and buy a radiator key for £1.50 at a hardware shop or a DIY store. Remind them it is their responsibility to undertake minor repairs, of which bleeding a radiator is one such responsibility. Remind them to avoid damaging surrounding furnishings whilst bleeding.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A tenant like matter. Taken to mean “the little jobs about the place”. i.e. cleaning windows, replacing a fuse, unblocking sinks etc. I would question whether the bleeding of radiators was a “little job about the place”. Personally I wouldn’t have a clue how to bleed a radiator! I’m I unique?

                      I think it is reasonable to expect an adult to know how to clean a window or replace a fuse but bleeding radiators. I don’t know many people who would know how to do bleed a radiator. I’ve just asked 5 people in my office and only one person knows how to bleed a radiator! You’ve actually started a debate in my office, we are split!

                      My thought is if the landlord just refused to carry out the work and the tenant did not know how to bleed the radiator, and the radiator was not functioning as a result, would the landlord be in breach of S11? Well the heating system would not be fully functioning, so in theory yes.

                      I guess it depends on who the tenants are too, if your tenant is a 90 year old Grandmother with a dodgy heart, or a young healthy 25 year old man.

                      Does your tenant have the tools for the job?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by avid View Post
                        I think it is reasonable to expect an adult to know how to clean a window or replace a fuse but bleeding radiators. I don’t know many people who would know how to do bleed a radiator. I’ve just asked 5 people in my office and only one person knows how to bleed a radiator! You’ve actually started a debate in my office, we are split!
                        I agree with you. It's in no way a technical task; even I can manage it.
                        Give them the tool and they can finish the job: [(c) Winston Churchill]. see http://www.quotationspage.com/special.php3?file=w980510
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          A tenant asked me to bleed his radiators. I told him no, it was his job but as he was getting his gas test done the following week he could ask the plumber to show him how.

                          Once I got off the phone I laughed my head off. How can anyone think it is the landlord's job to bleed the radiators?

                          Talking of comedy things landlords have been asked to do, a landlord I knew was asked to go and tune the tenant's freeview box in. (One the tenant had bought themselves as well!)
                          I'm trying to raise awareness of Myotonic Dystrophy, Pre-implantation Genetic Diagnosis (PGD) and In vitro fertilisation (IVF). Follow my PGD blog and please pass it on to any one you know who has an interest in PGD or IVF.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            solution to tenants who dont/wont bleed rads

                            theres a clever little gadget you can fit which will let the air out. actually there's several different types, automatic air valves and a type made by a firm called called "denc", who have a website. They are quite good.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              We had a very similar debate in our office, I was adamant that it is part of acting in a tenant like manner, but some people feel it is too technical, and a plumber reckons it could damage the system is done incorrectly... (I guess it could if you left it bleeding for a week!).

                              Comment

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