Rate of rent over £25 000: for whole or for each part?

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    Read-up about ground 1 Notices, at least.

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  • meehr
    replied
    thanks Jefferey, just one further bit maybe you could help with?

    I'm not interested in screwing tenants over (i'm a tenant myself and hate it when landlords are rubbish), i'm managing the place for a relative. That's not why I want to use a non-AST agreement, it's because:

    The situation is essentially that i need to let out three rooms. Initially, two will be let out while the LL (my relative) is still living at the property, hence, they can't be ASTs, but they can be lodger agreements.

    However, when LL moves away (potentially for 2 years) do I have to change the agreements for people or can the third person who takes over LL's bedroom also be a lodger (as per the agreement I mentioned earlier on legalhelpers.co.uk suggests is possible)? However, you indicate that in the eyes of the law whoever's there will be considered AST tenants. That's fine, but:

    My concern is only that when the LL returns after 2 years and moves back into one of the rooms (after asking and giving reasonable notice for the person to leave), where does that leave the other tenants - it seems like it's not possible to have a LL living in a property with tenants on ASTs - so what can be done?

    it's all rather hypothetical, but I want to know WHICH is the best agreement to use.

    regardless of anything, i'll be protecting the deposit and gas-safe-ing the boiler etc, it's more about the specific legal bit.

    THankS!

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by westminster View Post
    It seems to be about creating assured non-shorthold tenancies? Not applicable to OP's situation, surely.
    Yes. See the final paragraph of post #12 from snorkerz. Plus meehr has not yet granted anything.

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  • westminster
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
    Yes, there is (but not for an existing AST, only prospectively). See Schedule 2A to the Housing Act 1988.
    It seems to be about creating assured non-shorthold tenancies? Not applicable to OP's situation, surely.

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
    Without paying money to see this agreement I am not sure there is a way for a non-resident landlord to opt out of AST, and therefore avoid the obligations of the Housing Act.
    Yes, there is (but not for an existing AST, only prospectively). See Schedule 2A to the Housing Act 1988.

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  • Snorkerz
    replied
    Originally posted by meehr View Post
    Found this agreement on the legalhelpers.co.uk website (part of Landlord zone it seems)

    http://www.legalhelpers.co.uk/landlord/houseshare.asp

    Has anyone used this? It's the only place online I can find it, can anyone vouch for its usefulness/comprehensiveness?
    With regard to a non-resident landlord, the sharer/lodger must be given at least four weeks notice after the date when a notice to quit is given to them. With regard to resident landlords, although there is no prescribed period for giving notice, it is advisable to provide four weeks. You can specify a different period should you wish.
    Without paying money to see this agreement I am not sure there is a way for a non-resident landlord to opt out of AST, and therefore avoid the obligations of the Housing Act.

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  • meehr
    replied
    click the link. their logo is on top right hand corner, says 'proud to be working with...'

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  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by meehr View Post
    Found this agreement on the legalhelpers.co.uk website (part of Landlord zone it seems)

    http://www.legalhelpers.co.uk/landlord/houseshare.asp

    Has anyone used this? It's the only place online I can find it, can anyone vouch for its usefulness/comprehensiveness?
    Why do you think they are part of LandlordZONE?

    Leave a comment:


  • meehr
    replied
    alternative agreement?

    Found this agreement on the legalhelpers.co.uk website (part of Landlord zone it seems)

    http://www.legalhelpers.co.uk/landlord/houseshare.asp

    Has anyone used this? It's the only place online I can find it, can anyone vouch for its usefulness/comprehensiveness?

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffrey
    replied
    Here's what paragraph 10(1)(b) of Schedule 1 to the Housing Act 1988 says, with my underlining, re a resident landlord:

    that, subject to Part III of this Schedule, the tenancy was granted by an individual who, at the time when the tenancy was granted, occupied as his only or principal home another dwelling-house which:
    (i) in the case mentioned in paragraph (a) above, also forms part of the flat; or
    (ii) in any other case, also forms part of the building; and...

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  • tom999
    replied
    Originally posted by meehr View Post
    I'm leaning towards doing ASTs with each tenant and if in the event that the LL decides to return, switch them over to lodger agreements and accept that they'll be a muddle in the legal clarities for a couple of months at the switchover point
    This sounds rather messy. Why change the T's circumstances to suit the LL, simply so LL can have somewhere to stay after his trip abroad?

    No T in their right mind would agree to give up the security of tenure of an AST to be a lodger. In any case, it's unlikely a court will accept the property as the LL's main residence if LL is abroad for most of the year.

    What is your interest: Are you agent or LL?

    Leave a comment:


  • meehr
    replied
    helpful, thanks!

    Thanks for the help. I'm clearer on the situation now!

    Can anyone suggest what THEY would do in this situation?

    My understanding is that the lodgers agreements are only valid if the property is the LL's main home, but if the LL's abroad for more than 9months in any given year, it surely can't be considered their main home? I realise this is all rather legal technicalities and it's only really a concern if there is a problem arising, but any hints as to what others on here would do would be great!

    Given this potential scenario, I'm leaning towards doing ASTs with each tenant and if in the event that the LL decides to return, switch them over to lodger agreements and accept that they'll be a muddle in the legal clarities for a couple of months at the switchover point... However, what does the law state in that situation - is there guidance? Can you force tenants to change the contract from an AST to Lodger agreement? I would imagine not? Thoughts?

    Thanks!

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  • westminster
    replied
    If two people rent rooms, and LL lives in the third bedroom, the renters are lodgers (a.k.a. excluded occupiers), not assured shorthold tenants. Deposit protection would not apply.

    If all three rooms are rented on individual contracts, each person paying less than £2,083.33 pcm/£25,000 pa in rent, and LL does not live there, the renters are assured shorthold tenants. Deposit protection would apply.

    In the scenario you describe, with LL only resident occasionally, in between tenancies, and with all three rooms tenanted for most of the time, I think it would be hard to argue that this was LL's main residence.

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  • jeffrey
    replied
    Originally posted by tom999 View Post
    Yes.
    ...which means that each letting is considered individually. A letting at a rate of rent no more than £25 000 can be an AST; if > £25 000, it can't.
    However, if L is resident, the 1988 Act will not be capable of applying at all.

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  • natt48
    replied
    Have the tenants complete Lodger Agreements as opposed to AST's providing you can class it as your main residence, it will make it easier to remove problem tenants (if you get any)

    Leave a comment:

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