Rate of rent over £25 000: for whole or for each part?

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    Rate of rent over £25 000: for whole or for each part?

    Hey

    I'm confused, can anyone clarify?

    I'm letting out a property with total rent (for three bedrooms) exceeding £25k.

    However, the plan is to do separate tenancy agreements with tenants (moving in at different times) so the total rent for each of the agreements will be less than £25.

    My question then is - can these agreements (with the individual tenants) be Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements or must they be the other form (Contractual something or other? that's valid for those in excess of £25k?)

    If it's the latter (not an AST) can anyone point me to some info on what is entailed in one of those and whether I can still have separate contracts for each room?

    THANK YOU in advance. I've spent hours looking for the solution to this!

    Also, is there any problem with the landlord still living at the property (for short periods of time) while the other tenants have ASTs or whatever other contracts they'll need? i.e. he may return from abroad in between tenants' stays (one tenant moves out and before another moves in...)?

    #2
    Originally posted by meehr View Post
    My question then is - can these agreements (with the individual tenants) be Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements or must they be the other form (Contractual something or other? that's valid for those in excess of £25k?)
    Yes.

    Originally posted by meehr View Post
    Also, is there any problem with the landlord still living at the property (for short periods of time) while the other tenants have ASTs or whatever other contracts they'll need? i.e. he may return from abroad in between tenants' stays (one tenant moves out and before another moves in...)?
    If the LL will live at the property as his/her main residence then the other occupants cannot be tenants, but lodgers (L); in which case any such agreement between LL and L cannot be an AST.
    The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

    Comment


      #3
      Have the tenants complete Lodger Agreements as opposed to AST's providing you can class it as your main residence, it will make it easier to remove problem tenants (if you get any)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by tom999 View Post
        Yes.
        ...which means that each letting is considered individually. A letting at a rate of rent no more than £25 000 can be an AST; if > £25 000, it can't.
        However, if L is resident, the 1988 Act will not be capable of applying at all.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #5
          If two people rent rooms, and LL lives in the third bedroom, the renters are lodgers (a.k.a. excluded occupiers), not assured shorthold tenants. Deposit protection would not apply.

          If all three rooms are rented on individual contracts, each person paying less than £2,083.33 pcm/£25,000 pa in rent, and LL does not live there, the renters are assured shorthold tenants. Deposit protection would apply.

          In the scenario you describe, with LL only resident occasionally, in between tenancies, and with all three rooms tenanted for most of the time, I think it would be hard to argue that this was LL's main residence.

          Comment


            #6
            helpful, thanks!

            Thanks for the help. I'm clearer on the situation now!

            Can anyone suggest what THEY would do in this situation?

            My understanding is that the lodgers agreements are only valid if the property is the LL's main home, but if the LL's abroad for more than 9months in any given year, it surely can't be considered their main home? I realise this is all rather legal technicalities and it's only really a concern if there is a problem arising, but any hints as to what others on here would do would be great!

            Given this potential scenario, I'm leaning towards doing ASTs with each tenant and if in the event that the LL decides to return, switch them over to lodger agreements and accept that they'll be a muddle in the legal clarities for a couple of months at the switchover point... However, what does the law state in that situation - is there guidance? Can you force tenants to change the contract from an AST to Lodger agreement? I would imagine not? Thoughts?

            Thanks!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by meehr View Post
              I'm leaning towards doing ASTs with each tenant and if in the event that the LL decides to return, switch them over to lodger agreements and accept that they'll be a muddle in the legal clarities for a couple of months at the switchover point
              This sounds rather messy. Why change the T's circumstances to suit the LL, simply so LL can have somewhere to stay after his trip abroad?

              No T in their right mind would agree to give up the security of tenure of an AST to be a lodger. In any case, it's unlikely a court will accept the property as the LL's main residence if LL is abroad for most of the year.

              What is your interest: Are you agent or LL?
              The information in my posts is provided 'as is'. This is not intended to be legal advice. Legal or other professional advice should be sought before acting or relying on this information or any part of it. I will not be held responsible for loss or damage arising from errors in the information or the way in which a person uses the information on this . For more information on your query use the '' link at the top of this page. Agreements, Forms & Notices can be found .

              Comment


                #8
                Here's what paragraph 10(1)(b) of Schedule 1 to the Housing Act 1988 says, with my underlining, re a resident landlord:

                that, subject to Part III of this Schedule, the tenancy was granted by an individual who, at the time when the tenancy was granted, occupied as his only or principal home another dwelling-house which:
                (i) in the case mentioned in paragraph (a) above, also forms part of the flat; or
                (ii) in any other case, also forms part of the building; and...
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #9
                  alternative agreement?

                  Found this agreement on the legalhelpers.co.uk website (part of Landlord zone it seems)

                  http://www.legalhelpers.co.uk/landlord/houseshare.asp

                  Has anyone used this? It's the only place online I can find it, can anyone vouch for its usefulness/comprehensiveness?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by meehr View Post
                    Found this agreement on the legalhelpers.co.uk website (part of Landlord zone it seems)

                    http://www.legalhelpers.co.uk/landlord/houseshare.asp

                    Has anyone used this? It's the only place online I can find it, can anyone vouch for its usefulness/comprehensiveness?
                    Why do you think they are part of LandlordZONE?
                    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                    Comment


                      #11
                      click the link. their logo is on top right hand corner, says 'proud to be working with...'

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by meehr View Post
                        Found this agreement on the legalhelpers.co.uk website (part of Landlord zone it seems)

                        http://www.legalhelpers.co.uk/landlord/houseshare.asp

                        Has anyone used this? It's the only place online I can find it, can anyone vouch for its usefulness/comprehensiveness?
                        With regard to a non-resident landlord, the sharer/lodger must be given at least four weeks notice after the date when a notice to quit is given to them. With regard to resident landlords, although there is no prescribed period for giving notice, it is advisable to provide four weeks. You can specify a different period should you wish.
                        Without paying money to see this agreement I am not sure there is a way for a non-resident landlord to opt out of AST, and therefore avoid the obligations of the Housing Act.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                          Without paying money to see this agreement I am not sure there is a way for a non-resident landlord to opt out of AST, and therefore avoid the obligations of the Housing Act.
                          Yes, there is (but not for an existing AST, only prospectively). See Schedule 2A to the Housing Act 1988.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            Yes, there is (but not for an existing AST, only prospectively). See Schedule 2A to the Housing Act 1988.
                            It seems to be about creating assured non-shorthold tenancies? Not applicable to OP's situation, surely.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by westminster View Post
                              It seems to be about creating assured non-shorthold tenancies? Not applicable to OP's situation, surely.
                              Yes. See the final paragraph of post #12 from snorkerz. Plus meehr has not yet granted anything.
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

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