Can T claim harrassment/illegal eviction in circumstances?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Can T claim harrassment/illegal eviction in circumstances?

    Sorry for the long thread but i think a clear picture is needed.

    During an inspection 14 months ago the tenant, informed us that in 2009, he would be moving out to buy a house. So we thought it was time to redevelop the house, and in January informed him of this fact, as we would require planning inspector/architects etc to vist the house. And that from May we would like to start to clear the garden ready for the building works, which he agreed to and doesn't dispute he gave his consent. But he informed us that he couldn't raise the money to buy his new house untill 1st July 2009. We didn't have a problem with this and as the building works would cause some disruption we agreed that we would not charge him rent from 29 May 2009 to 1st July 2009 as a guesture of godwill, but the rent would from then continue as normal.
    After the 1st July, we kept in contact with the tenant who didn't complain about the building works and kept insisting that there was minor problem with the purchase of his new house, and that it was going to be resolved soon, again we didn't have a problem with this and thanked him for keeping us informed. Then he become very vage and abusive and we therefore assumed wrongly that his house purchase had failed, so we informed him that we would be serving him with a S21 to regain the properity and would then obtain a court order to evict him and that this process normally takes 3 months, as we couldn't just remove him from the house.

    The following week the tenant moved into his new house, leaving 6 weeks unpaid rent.

    He is now claiming that that due to the ground/building works he should have all the 10 weeks free of charge and that us keep asking him about his new house about once every 10 days and that the building/ground works was a breach of his quite enjoyment and haressment and that it caused him to leave the house and therefore we evicted him illegally and some other moneys as he claims we didn't do a rent increase correctly, again, it's something he doesn't dispute that he agreed to the increase?

    The questions are :-

    1) Due to him agreeing to the works taking place and that at no time asked the work men to leave the garden or complaining in writting or orally to us or any authorises means he has no chance or very little chance of a claim for breach of quite enjoyment/haressment/illegal eviction

    2) Also in the particual laws it talks about premises, does this defination in law include the garden?

    3) Should we just walk away and next time not be such nice guys in the furture and just serve the S21 straight away.
    Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

    #2
    Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
    The questions are :-

    1) Due to him agreeing to the works taking place and that at no time asked the work men to leave the garden or complaining in writting or orally to us or any authorises means he has no chance or very little chance of a claim for breach of quite enjoyment/haressment/illegal eviction

    2) Also in the particual laws it talks about premises, does this defination in law include the garden?

    3) Should we just walk away and next time not be such nice guys in the furture and just serve the S21 straight away.
    Sounds like your tenant needs the money and thinks he has nothing to lose by whinging until he gets his own way. Or perhaps he wasnt happy at the time and you did not realise.

    General comment; it would have been good to have communicated by letter from the outset so wires have less chance of getting crossed. Perhaps you did; it will be helpful now.

    1) The fact that you negotiated with your tenant before any action and he agreed helps, but can you prove you negotiated and he agreed? If you had just commenced without negotiating and him accepting that might be trouble.

    (2) If the garden is included in the tenancy, it does. If the garden is communal then possibly not

    3) Thats up to you. But maybe you were also motivated that you would still recieve some rent until it was convenient for you to make a start
    All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

    * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

    You can search the forums here:

    Comment


      #3
      Many thanks for the response,

      Everything was done by letter, thats why he's not disputing he agreed.
      The questions about premises was because he's lawyer, mentions works next to his premises, not on his premises.

      I think it's the old case of once he had or knew he was going to sign the contract, and he knew he was moving, as when you get a new job, he just wanted out with as much money as possible.

      If it was just the case of the rent and lawyer fees, we would go to court.
      It's the haressment and illegal eviction as these do carry very high risks.



      Reading through the forum about access to premises, the view I take is that a landlord never have the right to entry the premisies without premission,
      unless you are sure that you could just the reason to a judge, which would be an emergency which you could argue in front of a judge.

      I think people get confused, that because you give 24/48 hours notice you have the right to enter. My view is that this is just evidence that you are being responsible and a judge would always give you access and the tennant would bare the cost. So the tennant would be silly not to agree.
      Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
        Many thanks for the response,

        Everything was done by letter, thats why he's not disputing he agreed.
        The questions about premises was because he's lawyer, mentions works next to his premises, not on his premises.

        I think it's the old case of once he had or knew he was going to sign the contract, and he knew he was moving, as when you get a new job, he just wanted out with as much money as possible.

        If it was just the case of the rent and lawyer fees, we would go to court.
        It's the haressment and illegal eviction as these do carry very high risks.
        Read the statute on illegal eviction - Protection from Eviction Act 1977

        (3A) Subject to subsection (3B) below, the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if—
        (a)
        he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household, or
        (b)
        he persistently withdraws or withholds services reasonably required for the occupation of the premises in question as a residence,
        and (in either case) he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, that that conduct is likely to cause the residential occupier to give up the occupation of the whole or part of the premises or to refrain from exercising any right or pursuing any remedy in respect of the whole or part of the premises.
        (3B) A person shall not be guilty of an offence under subsection (3A) above if he proves that he had reasonable grounds for doing the acts or withdrawing or withholding the services in question.
        Note the importance of the underlined "and". Your actions were not carried out with this intent, i.e. to cause the T to give up occupation. He told you himself that he was planning to buy a place and move out. T consented to the works. You have everything in writing. I don't think T has a case.

        Comment


          #5
          His arguement is that we bullied/haressed into him agreeing to rent increase and to giving permission to do the works, and we didn't go as far as getting it witnessed and/or with text saying that he was doing it under his free will and that we didn't give him a explicited option for him to dissagree.

          We have settled with him, not because we think we did anything wrong or that we harressed or bullied him or that we may lose the case. But just because unless we settle, it would be endless and in the end we would spend loads of money on lawyers and time, than we hope gain, and that it's hard to prove a negative, so it would come done to who the judge believes and they tend to make the L prove their case rather than the T prove theirs.
          And of course if he prepared to make these claims, I guess he would stop at nothing. So the only reason we be fighting is to prove to myself and my family that I was right, which is never a good reason to go to court.

          Generally(Not about this case)

          Ts need protecting against bad Ls, and I fully support the setting up of the DPS, But I do wonder if it to easy for Ts to claim harressment and illegal eviction!

          People complain about young people not having any morals, but I think that middle aged people nowdays may have the same problem or is it the lawyers?
          Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

          Comment


            #6
            On the final point: some solicitors are unscrupulous, but it's more often the case that the client is seeking a lawful way to do something unlawful.
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


              #7
              I didn't answer Bels point 3.

              3) Thats up to you. But maybe you were also motivated that you would still recieve some rent until it was convenient for you to make a start


              Yes, that extra month rent we got has come in handy for us to use to cover all the money we settled for. But the main reason was why should the P be empty, he needed a place to stay, we had a place, and save having swatters.
              As with any agreements, there is always benefits and downsides for both parties. But its seems he wants all the benefits(being 10 weeks Rent Free, utilitys paid for him, and somewhere to live until he completed his house purchase) and no downside.
              Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

              Comment


                #8
                Was T on an AST or was it a protected T?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Periodic Tenancy, ie one month for him, two for us
                  Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
                    Periodic Tenancy, ie one month for him, two for us
                    Yes, but only if it's a statutory periodic tenancy under s.5 of 1988 Act (i.e. not one granted an a contractual periodic).
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Jeffery,

                      You said yes, are you saying "yes" to harrasment or illegal eviction or another point, just so i don't do it again, why is it against the law, as he entered the agreement of his own free will.

                      Many thanks
                      Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
                        JeffREy,

                        You said yes, are you saying "yes" to harrasment or illegal eviction or another point, just so i don't do it again, why is it against the law, as he entered the agreement of his own free will.

                        Many thanks
                        I said 'yes' to post #9 only (and subject to the qualification shown, re it being a statutory continuation and not a contractual continuation).
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          A follow up to my above posts, as the T in our views not been playing fair, we got his and our lawers to draw up, an agreement basicily for all of us to go our own ways. And paid in the full amount in full to his lawyer.

                          He is not cancelled the small court claim, and the lawyer will not return our calls, three days now.

                          The defence date has now passed as we extented by 14 days, to give us time to settle the matter as he started the claim on the 23rd Dec 2009.

                          Has he suckered us again, by making us think we settled, and then trying to get a default judgement against us and then keep hassling us for more money.

                          I been told the court can set aside a default judgement, how do we go about this.
                          Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                          Comment


                            #14
                            key thing he has left the property - could have been a lot worse if stayed and then made the allegations.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by mjbfire View Post
                              I been told the court can set aside a default judgement, how do we go about this.
                              Was the settlement signed by both parties and submitted to the court? Are you sure there has been a default judgment?

                              But yes, if that's what's happened, you can apply to have the judgment set aside. I don't which form it is (ask the court/your lawyer), but I do know you have to give your reasons and provide evidence.

                              Read the CPR on default judgments and setting them aside.
                              http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...rts/part12.htm
                              http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...rts/part13.htm

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X