Letting problem- rent arrears, now Court

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    Letting problem- rent arrears, now Court

    you may have heard this so many times ---basically i felt sorry for this family
    and as my house was up for sale and still is --i let this family come in on a month by month basis --ie they could give me 1 months notice as i could give them i month --i let them in by paying only a partial deposit with the balence being paid over the next 2 months ..

    they are in default of paying their deposit in full

    of course they were dss

    with conditions to show prospective purchasers around ---which they did but actually put off prospective buyers which i later found out about ....

    the council have only made some payments and the tenants are in arrears.
    on the contract it clearly states payments are in advance .at this time they are about one month in arrears ...

    they moved in in october 09

    at the time of them moving in i gave permission for their extended family to stay and help with the move .what a mistake

    i went round last night to try and sort out the problems and took a policeman and i am glad i did

    extended family is still there --and i gave them 48hrs to leave
    ,
    shouting mouthing yob that he turned out to be nearly got himself arrested .
    with his wife chipping in --you can imagine the scene

    so i served them with one months notice ...

    however today when i start looking at the tenancy laws governing this country i am aghast at the rights they have ..

    i am checking with my insurance but the extended famlily may be invalidating my insurance

    i need these people removed and need some solid advice asap
    thanks in advance
    phill

    #2
    Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
    however today when i start looking at the tenancy laws governing this country i am aghast at the rights they have ..
    I am not sure what there is to be aghast about. The laws are in place to protect tenants from abusive LLs. Landlords need to acquaint themselves with the law before renting out their houses, really.

    I believe you have to serve your tenants a section 21 notice requiring possession, giving minimum of TWO months' notice*, unless they owe you at least two months' rent. In that case, you can serve them a section 8 ground 8 notice and apply for a court order for possession. This should be granted, at which point if they do not move out by the day they are supposed to, you can instruct bailiffs. The bailiffs will enforce possession including eviciting any additional occupants.

    *If they do not owe at least two months rent, then a section 21 notice cannot expire before the end of the first six months of the tenancy. That overrides anything more advantageous to yourself which you have written into the tenancy contract.

    Allow a few months at least.

    If this sounds complicated, then you would probably be best advised to seek legal help locally or employ one of the companies who advertise on this site to help you evict your tenants.
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


      #3
      are u sure about me having to put up with these other people occupying my property-- uninvited unwanted and i have no control in that ..sureely not

      one question as i have not received all of the deposit --should i register what i have received --then file section 21 --how do i stand with that

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
        are u sure about me having to put up with these other people occupying my property-- uninvited unwanted and i have no control in that ..sureely not

        one question as i have not received all of the deposit --should i register what i have received --then file section 21 --how do i stand with that
        Unless the property is an HMO and you can demonstrate that the extra occupants breach overcrowding regs, then you have to accept that your tenants have the right to have guests. You may have something in your tenancy contract limiting this right, but how do you propose to enforce it?

        Deckchairs...Titanic. Just concentrate on getting the original tenants out and the rest wll be obliged to follow.
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
          one question as i have not received all of the deposit --should i register what i have received --then file section 21 --how do i stand with that
          You cannot use a s.21 notice unless the deposit is protected - it won't be valid. You are also exposed to a claim for failing to comply with deposit protection - potentially a penalty of 3x the deposit. Makes no difference whether it's the 'full' deposit or not, it's still a deposit.

          Comment


            #6
            if they are HB contact the council - more than 8 weeks unpaid and money HAS TO be paid to you not the tenant no matter what the tenant (or the council) says
            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

            Comment


              #7
              pjb0150: who advised you to blunder into this mess unaided? It's not necessarily your fault; and you may not have intended to grant rights to T- but you did. You cannot unilaterally undo that. With hindsight, I wish that you had more fully understood Landlord and Tenant principles.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                do you know i have told so many people to look into things deeply ---i now find myself having not done just that ....

                never thinking that the law is so unjust and trusting in it ----never again

                and trusting far to much with low life who see that as a weakness and smite the hand that gave them that opportunity

                a lesson to us all --the main issue being the governments laws overriding the contractual agreeement i have with them ....
                causing me hassle, a lot of money,

                problem being as ever sorting out the good from the low life

                i ama dvised that section 8 is the way to go one deposit is registered

                thanks for all constructive replies
                phill

                Comment


                  #9
                  The law is not inherently unjust, you know- it tries to steer an even line between bias towards L and bias towards T. You do not like its effects in your case; but that does not make it unfair. You already know that your good-nature and trust (not the law) lumbered you with this mess.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You need to learn about your tenants’ rights whether you like it or not. You need to act to legally evict these tenants.
                    • First thing first – protect the deposit today.
                    • When two months’ rent is unpaid, issue a section 8 notice citing grounds 8,10,11.
                    • Issue a section 21(1)(b) notice – because the tenancy is only two months’ old.
                    I think it will be in your interests to issue both a section 8 notice and a section 21 notice. Both notices can run concurrently.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You could use one of the illegal ways of evicting your tenants but it isn't recommended unless you fancy a spell inside.

                      Back in the 1960's there was a guy who used to buy blocks of flats in London which were let under the old pre AST contracts. People had security of tenure for life and were able to pass their tenancy onto family members when they died. This type of tenancy seriously affected the value of the property and so he was able to buy the blocks of flats for virtualy nothing. The story is someone would then go and loosen the pipes to the water tank on the roof of the block and flood all the flats below. Then after a few months when the tenants had cleared up , dried out and replaced carpets they would do it again, and again, and again etc. Soon, the tenants had enough, moved out and the block was empty. The guy would then get his builders in to refurbish the block increasing the value X10 and he became a multi millionaire.

                      Its a good yarn and shows that with a little bit of creative thinking there are many ways of evicting undesirables.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        just filling in a few blanks
                        t has been i touch with local housing advice centre and is now claiming guests were a part of contract ..

                        i originally allowed in 6 people --with these guests i now have 9 in a 4 bed house
                        they are in arrears rent wise
                        in arrears deposit wise

                        partial deposist now in scheme now for the next stages

                        i will try and get a statment from policeman who attended to add to the cae re his behaviour

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by pjb0150 View Post
                          just filling in a few blanks
                          t has been i touch with local housing advice centre and is now claiming guests were a part of contract ..

                          i originally allowed in 6 people --with these guests i now have 9 in a 4 bed house
                          they are in arrears rent wise
                          in arrears deposit wise

                          partial deposist now in scheme now for the next stages

                          i will try and get a statment from policeman who attended to add to the cae re his behaviour
                          You could add ground 12 (breaching conditions of TA, non-rent) and ground 14 (anti-social behaviour of tenant or guest towards neighbours) to your section 8 notice. All grist to the mill.
                          'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bear in mind that the section 8 route (whatever grounds) will require probably 2 court hearings. The tenants may be able to get Legal Aid to defend the claim (this will be more likely if a claim is made under ground 14). If the claim is defended then the case could drag along and take time to resolve.

                            You might want to consider section 21. Your difficulty is that you cannot use the accelerated procedure because you do not have a written tenancy agreement.

                            The benefit of section 21 is that the tenants are unlikely to get Legal Aid (as there is no prospect of success).
                            PAUL GIBBS, solicitor, Jacobs & Reeves. My comments on this forum are correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. No responsibility or liability is accepted by reason of reliance upon such comments. This disclaimer would not apply to direct clients of Jacobs & Reeves where there is a valid retainer in place and I would be happy to confirm any advice if formally instructed. . Jacobs & Reeves now offer a fixed fee possession service.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              thank you paul for your input
                              i do have a written tenancy agreement --- it goes like this names removed of course .


                              Shared house agreement

                              Start Date of tenancy 11 oct 09
                              Between:-

                              and
                              (2)

                              1. DEMISE
                              Various rooms with shared facilities within 73 conway dr shepshed leicestershire le129pp
                              with the furniture and effects listed in the attached inventory and which the parties agree are in good condition unless otherwise stated in the said inventory (“effects”)

                              The tenant may end this agreement by one month’s written notice and the Landlord may end it by giving one month’s written notice...


                              3. RENT AND OUTGOINGS
                              The Tenant(s) each of them jointly and severally agree to pay.

                              3.1 Rent by monthly instalments of £ 750 per month in advance and pay interest at the rate of 4 per centum per annum above the base rate from time to time of Natwest bank plc on any rent in arrears for more than fourteen days calculated from the date upon which such rent was due to be paid to the date upon which it is actually paid.

                              3.2 All Charges for gas , electricity, phone, internet, broadband, water, sewage , council tax, tv licence and any tv facilities such as sky supplied, rented and or used to the property during this tenancy.

                              3.3 all payments made into mr pj brookman first direct




                              4. TENANTS COVENANT / UNDERTAKINGS

                              The Tenant must:

                              4.1 occupy the property personally and not assign sub-let share or part with possession nor permit use or occupation by anyone else not in paying guests or lodgers and not to carry on any professional trade or business. Unless agreed with mr pj brookman

                              4.2 keep the property and the effects clean including cleaning of windows .

                              4.3 report any damage loss or malfunction to mr pj brookman

                              4.4 The tenant may also use the washing machine, fridge, freezer, cooker but the maintenance and replacement of these items will be tenants responsibility

                              4.5not cut down remove or otherwise injure any tree shrubs or plants growing upon the premises or to alter the general character of the garden and throughout the whole of the tenancy to cultivate the garden in a reasonable manner according to the season of the year, minimum requirement being to keep lawns mown .

                              4.6Leave the property all appliances and the effects clean and free of rubbish at the end of the tenancy and all effects in position as identified on the inventory and hand over all keys to the property.

                              4.7Keep sufficient heat in the property to prevent damage from frost.


                              4.8 Not damage (fair wear and tear excepted) or remove from the property any of the effects and replace with similar articles of at least equal value any of the effects damaged or destroyed.

                              5. RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS

                              The Tenants must not

                              5.1 except with the Landlord’s consent

                              5.1.1 carry out any redecoration or alterations to the property or the layout of the garden any effects

                              5.1.1 change the locks or install addition locks

                              5.1.2 install or use addition heaters

                              5.1.3 keep any pets or animals on the premises unless with permission

                              5.2 create any nuisance in the property nor permit the Tenant’s visitors to do any such acts

                              5.3 play radios TV sets tape machinery record players or musical instruments to cause annoyance

                              5.4 do anything to invalidate the Landlord’s insurance on the property

                              5.5 place any signs or notices upon the property.

                              5.6 Contact the landlord directly, any representations or communications regarding the property

                              5.7 Smoke.

                              5.8 A room will be available for mr p j brookman


                              LANDLORDS OBLIGATIONS

                              The Landlord must keep in repair the structure and exterior of the property and the installations in the property for the supply of water gas and electricity and for sanitation

                              The Landlord / Landlord’s Agent may:-

                              7.1 enter any area of the property at any reasonable hour in the daytime for periodic checks to ensure property are maintained in satisfactory manner, carry out work to the property and or to view with prospective tenants or purchasers by prior appointment (unless circumstances dictate otherwise)

                              7.2 place any signs and notices upon the property

                              7.3 require the Tenant to permit proposed purchasers and occupiers to enter and view the property on production by them of an authority therefore by or on behalf of the Landlord

                              7.4 use the deposit of £ 800 made by the tenant to make good any loss or damage to the property or to any part of the building damaged by the tenant or the tenant’s visitors or any failure to decorate or to clean the property if left dirty or smelly on leaving and any other financial losses suffered by the landlord as a result of the tenant’s breach of terms and conditions, provided the sum claimed is reasonably incurred and is reasonable in amount, allowing fair wear and tear which is a result of the tenant living in the property and using it in a reasonable and lawful manner

                              The tenant agrees to show people around the property and understands as the property is up for sale the tenancy may end at any time






                              SIGNED BY THE LANDLORD /:_______________________________

                              SIGNED BY THE TENANT/S:__________________________________DATE:_________ ____

                              __________________________________________________ ____________TIME:____________


                              IN THE PRESENCE OF:_______________________________________________ ___________

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